Here is a collection of comments on Wendy Doniger's whine:
A comment that NYT failed to post:
"I know this is asking too much of people who pay fees at the U.Chicago, or buy books by their Divinity faculty, but please try Googling "Books banned in India". You may learn a lot, including 4 simple facts:
(1) There is no "blasphemy" law in India. There is a "don't incite riots" law which asks people to exert some adult sense of decency (I mean as in responsibility not the Doniger kind) and respect towards others.
(2) The list of banned books and movies shows almost none banned to cater to "Right Wing Hindutva" whatever.
(3) Despite trying for decades, no U.Chicago Divinity Faculty have managed to get their books banned.
(4) Prof. Laine of some obscure school, did manage at his SECOND attempt. On his first attempt, when it came to a hearing (not for blasphemy, but outright lying and false advertising) he fell on the mercy of he court, claiming that his "history book" was all fiction. Q.E.D.
Sorry, but per the law, Doniger's right to peddle her wares does not trump some poor person's right to life, and a peaceful existence undisturbed by riots. That is what the law has conveyed consistently by the list of banned books. But seeing that takes honesty. Doniger's problem is that she is facing real peer review outside her bigot dump for the first time, and publishers rush to admit that they have been conned."
Aarti Nagarajan
Germany 8 hours agoThe title is misleading and factually incorrect. The book has not been banned. It was the publishing house that decided to settle things out of court...it is still misleading to suggest that the book was banned.
Mitya
Chapel Hill, NC 8 hours agoA clever article indeed. To claim she is defending "the pluralistic, open-ended, endlessly imaginative, often satirical Hinduism" from the attacks by the European inspired "sanitized" Hindus is quite diabolical actually.
A fail-proof recipe to get cheap publicity:
1) Use your heft/connections to get access to the pages of NY Times
2) Write a flawed yet passionate Op-Ed
3) Give it a misleading (if not false) heading
4) Refrain from mentioning it was the publisher who voluntarily decided to "pulp" the remaining copies of her book 5) Imply the "sanitized" Hindus and their government did it
6) Equate that with 1930s Nazi book-burning
7) Make up facts like India passing a law criminalizing homosexuality and let Times belatedly correct that
8) Say nasty things about Narendra Modi who is the darling of 70% of Indians
9) Let it simmer for a day and voila, enjoy with friends and family and....
....laugh all the way to the bank.
Personally I think Penguin India jumped the gun on this. No matter how objectionable, 'pulping' the book was unnecessary. It will not deny those who want to read it - and Ms. Doniger, despite her shrill cries, knows it.
Shame on her for misusing the pages of this great paper.
Fairness calls for the NY Times to now give equal space to a "sanitized" Hindu scholar (one who lives the tradition every day and is fluent in its languages). Else, Ms. Doniger's piece will remain a one sided self-promoting propaganda.
A fail-proof recipe to get cheap publicity:
1) Use your heft/connections to get access to the pages of NY Times
2) Write a flawed yet passionate Op-Ed
3) Give it a misleading (if not false) heading
4) Refrain from mentioning it was the publisher who voluntarily decided to "pulp" the remaining copies of her book 5) Imply the "sanitized" Hindus and their government did it
6) Equate that with 1930s Nazi book-burning
7) Make up facts like India passing a law criminalizing homosexuality and let Times belatedly correct that
8) Say nasty things about Narendra Modi who is the darling of 70% of Indians
9) Let it simmer for a day and voila, enjoy with friends and family and....
....laugh all the way to the bank.
Personally I think Penguin India jumped the gun on this. No matter how objectionable, 'pulping' the book was unnecessary. It will not deny those who want to read it - and Ms. Doniger, despite her shrill cries, knows it.
Shame on her for misusing the pages of this great paper.
Fairness calls for the NY Times to now give equal space to a "sanitized" Hindu scholar (one who lives the tradition every day and is fluent in its languages). Else, Ms. Doniger's piece will remain a one sided self-promoting propaganda.
Brahman Siva
New York 8 hours agoHindus GENERALLY subscribe to the idea that there is ONLY ONE GOD but feel free to worship different aspects of GOD. Likewise Jews believe that there is ONE TORAH but seek different Rabbis to interpret
Intolerant Hindus are merely reacting to the Abrahamic traditions of Christianity and Islam.
My best advise to Wendy Doniger is to stop broadcasting her opinions because she can only understand a minute part of TRUTH
Intolerant Hindus are merely reacting to the Abrahamic traditions of Christianity and Islam.
My best advise to Wendy Doniger is to stop broadcasting her opinions because she can only understand a minute part of TRUTH
Kishore
St Augustine Florida 8 hours agoDoniger was looking very reasonable and convincing until she made the totally inflamatory and irresponsibel remark about Modi bieng some right wing religious fanatic. In that she gains inspriration from the pseudo Western corrupt and dishonest Indian liberal elite only goes to show how out of touch she is with the aspirations and sufferings of the Common Man. Nonetheless, I have bought her book and wil give it a fair read
SandyK
NJ 8 hours agoNYT Editors: I dare you to do three things.
1. Investigate the real reason for Penguin's withdrawal of the book. Get a real quote from the actual chairman or CEO, don't just crib from the press statement.
2. Invite Rajiv Malhotra (Google him) to write an article in response to this piece in the spirit of fair and balanced reportage, and
3. Fire your fact-checkers. The same lax editorial control that got Penguin into this mess is evident here. For example, compare Doniger's definition of 'Sanatana Dharma' in this essay with any, and I mean any mainstream source including Wikipedia to see what I mean. Another example, right out of the title - the word 'ban'. There was no ban. Do your research. What happened in this case was no different from Converse withdrawing sneakers that had Hindu imagery on them or Katy Perry editing her video to accommodate Islamic sentiments. I'm stunned at how the absence of pro-active cultural sensitivity and respect is defended with ad hominem attacks of 'Hindutvadi' labels and 'fundamentalism' in the name of scholarship. To the great inconvenience of Doniger and her ilk, the sentient Hindu has finally realized that while he or she was busy making a career elsewhere (because there are no cushy grants for deep dives into Hinduism in Indian Universities ), Doniger has been indulging in the academic equivalent of walking into temples with shoes on, poking at the idols, making uninformed conclusions and declaring her 'findings' as absolute truths.
1. Investigate the real reason for Penguin's withdrawal of the book. Get a real quote from the actual chairman or CEO, don't just crib from the press statement.
2. Invite Rajiv Malhotra (Google him) to write an article in response to this piece in the spirit of fair and balanced reportage, and
3. Fire your fact-checkers. The same lax editorial control that got Penguin into this mess is evident here. For example, compare Doniger's definition of 'Sanatana Dharma' in this essay with any, and I mean any mainstream source including Wikipedia to see what I mean. Another example, right out of the title - the word 'ban'. There was no ban. Do your research. What happened in this case was no different from Converse withdrawing sneakers that had Hindu imagery on them or Katy Perry editing her video to accommodate Islamic sentiments. I'm stunned at how the absence of pro-active cultural sensitivity and respect is defended with ad hominem attacks of 'Hindutvadi' labels and 'fundamentalism' in the name of scholarship. To the great inconvenience of Doniger and her ilk, the sentient Hindu has finally realized that while he or she was busy making a career elsewhere (because there are no cushy grants for deep dives into Hinduism in Indian Universities ), Doniger has been indulging in the academic equivalent of walking into temples with shoes on, poking at the idols, making uninformed conclusions and declaring her 'findings' as absolute truths.
Bill Ogle
Daytona Beach 8 hours agoWhat we call Hinduism has been known by the practitioners as Varnashram Dharma. It has been present in what is now India for thousands of years. Ashram means the four stages of life, student, married, retired, and renounced. Of the four stages, all except married life are celibate. Bramacharya (student life) means celibate. And married life (grhasta) also is governed by codes of conduct. To say "there is a lot of sex in hinduism" is therefore curious. If the author is referring to the relationship between Krishna and the gopis, that is not ordinary and cannot be understood by scholarship alone. Only by spiritual practice (including a restriction on sensuality) can those matters be understood.
J
Denver 8 hours agoHow dare you talk about alternative sexuality in your book!
Where can we get a copy?
Where can we get a copy?
Bamarolls
Westmont, IL 8 hours agoBanning of a book cannot be justified in our modern society - especially in a open democratic society like India. Many Indian scholars felt hurt that Penguin Books, India succumbed to the pressure of a small minority.
Yet, I take issue with the title of this article. The facts that I know (from recollection of Ms Doniger's interview with NPR, coverage of the news in NYT,) the case was settled out of court. I do not recall, from any of the events that any Judge in India got to pass a judgment.
To me the whole episode sounds very familiar – few years ago, some self-proclaimed protectors of Indian culture vandalized a Valentine day party. Many of the partiers got to take revenge – by singling out the miscreants and decorating these goons with pink under wears (Pink Chaddi movement.)
As for Christian Missionaries – all should not be lumped together. The very first complete story of RAMA in Hindi – was a scholarly work done by a Christian Missioner – Baba Kamil Bulke. The book – Ram Katha.
Fortunately, that book - Ram Katha - did not face as much resistance as did its predecessor in another common people language – Awadhi – Ram Charit Manas.
I also feel very sorry for the vulgarity Ms. Doniger had to face. No place for it.
Yet, I take issue with the title of this article. The facts that I know (from recollection of Ms Doniger's interview with NPR, coverage of the news in NYT,) the case was settled out of court. I do not recall, from any of the events that any Judge in India got to pass a judgment.
To me the whole episode sounds very familiar – few years ago, some self-proclaimed protectors of Indian culture vandalized a Valentine day party. Many of the partiers got to take revenge – by singling out the miscreants and decorating these goons with pink under wears (Pink Chaddi movement.)
As for Christian Missionaries – all should not be lumped together. The very first complete story of RAMA in Hindi – was a scholarly work done by a Christian Missioner – Baba Kamil Bulke. The book – Ram Katha.
Fortunately, that book - Ram Katha - did not face as much resistance as did its predecessor in another common people language – Awadhi – Ram Charit Manas.
I also feel very sorry for the vulgarity Ms. Doniger had to face. No place for it.
Tom Bandolini
Brooklyn, NY 112114 8 hours agoIndia should ban this lady to enter. She does not have any authority to talk or write about Hinduism. She should stay in America and enjoy her support from Muslims and Christians. Amen.
Ordinary People
Ames, IA 8 hours agoFor a person so illustriously educated and accomplished, Ms. Doniger's Op-Ed is proof of how misinformed she is about central facts on India's laws and on Sanatana Dharma of Hinduism. Unfortunately, for the common western reader who has little to no understanding of Sanskrit or Hinduism, a degree from Harvard or Columbia or University of Chicago will be seen as a great seal of authenticity. Clearly, not the quality of work or deep insight one typically sees from a professor at a top 10 University or an Op-Ed in the NYT, A really low bar for all those aspiring to make it to Harvard and get published in the NYT.
Glk
Baltimore 8 hours agoHer publisher shouldn't have been pressured into withdrawing her book in India. On the other hand, it is a somewhat spirit-less and stuffy book that reviews the plight of the horse in the horse sacrifice more than it does the historic bones of Hinduism.
Sreenatha
San Jose 8 hours agoCan Ms. Doniger explain what religious fundamentalists have to do with banning of her book? There was a case brought against her book and her publisher decided to withdraw. Please stop trying to get mileage out of that small event to sell your book. If so-called intellectuals indulge in such cheap tricks, raising the specter of religious fundamentalism, to sell and gain fame then this world is a terrible, terrible place. In reality India is far less religious than America, although there is less freedom of speech in India but that is mostly on account of the Indian Government, which Ms. Doniger seems to be supporting by denouncing the only opposition party of India, the BJP.
Sridhar
Hyderabad, India 8 hours agoA lot of media outlets, especially the American ones are seemingly hell-bent on blaming Modi for any negative (from the liberal PoV) incident occurring in India. I really do feel for them. I wonder how much they'll moan if(when?) he gets elected as PM. And I'm not even a Modi supporter.
This op-ed is a poor excuse for publicity and promoting the author's political views which are completely irrelevant.
This op-ed is a poor excuse for publicity and promoting the author's political views which are completely irrelevant.
Jay Yen
Los Angeles 8 hours agoMd. Dongier article is filled with many lies and half-truths...India does not have ' Blasphemy Laws' There is a British era law that has been used to ban books that are deemed to cause hatred among communities but most of the books that have been banned were due to pressure from Muslims (Satanic Verses by Salman Rushdie was banned in India) or Christians (Da Vinchi Code was banned in Congress ruled Kerala state!).
Another blatant lie peddled in this article is that BJP 'Ultra Rightwing party' (any rational observer of India would laugh at this description)...in fact, Christian Leaders of Catholic Church of Kerala have endorsed Modi, the PM candidate of BJP...Modi has even met with Christian Evangelist (Mr. Dinakaran) and praised him for his administrative skills and for making Gujarat the safest state in India.
Another blatant lie peddled in this article is that BJP 'Ultra Rightwing party' (any rational observer of India would laugh at this description)...in fact, Christian Leaders of Catholic Church of Kerala have endorsed Modi, the PM candidate of BJP...Modi has even met with Christian Evangelist (Mr. Dinakaran) and praised him for his administrative skills and for making Gujarat the safest state in India.
Anonymous
CA 8 hours agoWendy: if you truly want to learn about Hinduism, catch a flight and spend the next 10 years in rural and urban India - only then will you realize how misguided your book is.
Prabodh
Philadelphia 8 hours agoI wish Dr Doniger had followed the Indian Teachings- you have right for your actions- do what you think is right and leave the results to God. In other words do not react!
Siobhan
New York 9 hours agoMs Doniger wrote a book that was bound to offend people.
Suppose a Christian person decided to write about all the"strange" things that go on in Orthodox Judaism, such as not allowing a non-Jew to pour kosher wine once it's opened, or the requirement for a menstruating woman to sleep in a separate bed from her husband?
Ms Doniger may be fascinated by the Hindus--great. But she is out of line in criticizing an entire culture, or portion of it, because they dare to criticize her for her take on them.
Suppose a Christian person decided to write about all the"strange" things that go on in Orthodox Judaism, such as not allowing a non-Jew to pour kosher wine once it's opened, or the requirement for a menstruating woman to sleep in a separate bed from her husband?
Ms Doniger may be fascinated by the Hindus--great. But she is out of line in criticizing an entire culture, or portion of it, because they dare to criticize her for her take on them.
Hmmmm...SanDiego
San Diego 9 hours agoPractitioners of Hinduism have ascribed both good and evil to God's will. This passivity has not served us well. Hindutva is a concept that is a reaction to such weakness that resulted in India being ruled by Muslims for hundreds of years. Adherents of Hindutva believe that India can only be strong if it becomes more Hindu and consequently strong. They are wrong. India's strength lies in its intellectual bent and with a stronger economy can become a world force. That is what Modi is striving for. He does have baggage but then who doesn't. There is no fear of his infusing hate against other religions. He will have more urgent matters to deal with if he gains power. The world does not have worry about Hindutva gaining traction in India.
Jack Nargundkar
Germantown, MD 9 hours agoAmericans and Europeans need to recognize that while India is a secular nation by Constitution, it is still a majority Hindu nation (~80%). More importantly, there is an Islamic crescent of countries stretching from the eastern edge of Europe to the western edge of Australia – Israel on the western fringe and India on the eastern fringe of this Islamic crescent are the two prominent non-Muslim nations amongst a largely Muslim neighborhood.
After we were attacked on 9/11 by extremist elements within the Islamist world, Hindu fundamentalism or “Hindutva” took on an added significance within India. Hindu nationalists believed that they would finally have a more responsive ear in the western world towards an Islamic extremism problem that India had been dealing with since 1990, shortly after the Soviets abandoned Afghanistan and the U.S.-backed Mujahedeen there were left without an enemy to fight.
So Ms. Doniger’s book ban, while entirely unjustified and quite likely to be overturned on appeal, has to be viewed in that larger context. There is still a huge illiterate Hindu population, which is more prone to support a ban on a book most of them won’t ever read. This seems to me more like a populist push during an election year that will help get Mr. Modi elected. But that will not be altogether such a bad thing as he will bring India closer to the United States (which would be nice) and away from Russian influence that still hangs over India from the Cold War.
After we were attacked on 9/11 by extremist elements within the Islamist world, Hindu fundamentalism or “Hindutva” took on an added significance within India. Hindu nationalists believed that they would finally have a more responsive ear in the western world towards an Islamic extremism problem that India had been dealing with since 1990, shortly after the Soviets abandoned Afghanistan and the U.S.-backed Mujahedeen there were left without an enemy to fight.
So Ms. Doniger’s book ban, while entirely unjustified and quite likely to be overturned on appeal, has to be viewed in that larger context. There is still a huge illiterate Hindu population, which is more prone to support a ban on a book most of them won’t ever read. This seems to me more like a populist push during an election year that will help get Mr. Modi elected. But that will not be altogether such a bad thing as he will bring India closer to the United States (which would be nice) and away from Russian influence that still hangs over India from the Cold War.
Nathan
California 9 hours agoWendy, the culture you come from (America) has a 50% divorce rate. The culture you are "de-constructing" has a 1% divorce rate. Why should they believe you ?
SC
NYC 9 hours agoI have never in my life heard some religious type rail against having their feelings hurt who hasn't, at some point (usually at many points) hurt the feelings of others. Including mine. So, tell me, you representatives of God here on Earth, what is it that makes you so fragile that you can't stand to be offended, yet you feel the perfect right to offend the rest of us? If you can't stand the heat, start by turning off the stove.....
RS
Philly 9 hours agoRegardless of its scholarly merits, no liberal minded American scholar would even dare to write such a book about Islam.
On a related note, Can you imagine a Broadway show called the Book of Islam, with a dancing, cavorting and singing Mohammed?
On a related note, Can you imagine a Broadway show called the Book of Islam, with a dancing, cavorting and singing Mohammed?
James F Traynor
Punta Gorda 9 hours agoI fervently hope that investigators of the human brain will, some day, discover that the need for religion is, as is the structure of the chin, an accident of evolution.
Jamil M Chaudri
Huntington, WV 9 hours agoHurting other's religious sentiments while claiming to be Christian, Jewish, Muslim or Agnostic or even Nonreligious is not really kosher, hallal or permitted. I am a America of Paki origin, but I wish to defend India for having the courage to take the action that it did.
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Mind you, I too am an academic, and did order a copy of the Offensive Book so that in any discussion or debate I would not be making statements base on hearsay.
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America is exceeding becoming a land of "ABUSE THE OTHER", "provoke the other", "challenge the other", "undermine the other", "put a label on the other". All such things with the sole purpose of building careers, winning elections, becoming rich.
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Mind you, I too am an academic, and did order a copy of the Offensive Book so that in any discussion or debate I would not be making statements base on hearsay.
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America is exceeding becoming a land of "ABUSE THE OTHER", "provoke the other", "challenge the other", "undermine the other", "put a label on the other". All such things with the sole purpose of building careers, winning elections, becoming rich.
Venug
NY 9 hours agoTo Response to Catherine Mayo's book "Mother India" Gandhi said :
This book is cleverly and powerfully written. The carefully chosen quotations give it the false appearance of a truthful book. But the impression it leaves on my mind is that it is the report of a drain inspector sent out with the one purpose of opening and examining the drains of the country to be reported upon, or to give a graphic description of the stench exuded by the opened drains. If Miss Mayo had confessed that she had come to India merely to open out and examine the drains of India, there would perhaps be little to complain about her compilation. But she declared her abominable and patently wrong conclusion with a certain amount of triumph: 'the drains are India'.
Wendy Doniger, Your Books on Hinduism too are the same - Gutter Inspection reports.
This book is cleverly and powerfully written. The carefully chosen quotations give it the false appearance of a truthful book. But the impression it leaves on my mind is that it is the report of a drain inspector sent out with the one purpose of opening and examining the drains of the country to be reported upon, or to give a graphic description of the stench exuded by the opened drains. If Miss Mayo had confessed that she had come to India merely to open out and examine the drains of India, there would perhaps be little to complain about her compilation. But she declared her abominable and patently wrong conclusion with a certain amount of triumph: 'the drains are India'.
Wendy Doniger, Your Books on Hinduism too are the same - Gutter Inspection reports.
Dr Ray
Ohio 9 hours agoAs an American of Hindu origin, I agree with Prof. Doniger's concern that blasphemy (or anti-hate) laws should not be enforced at the expense of free speech.
Unlike newer religions such as Christianity, Islam and even Buddhism, Hinduism is vast and varied in its interpretation of its scriptures and even of the definitions of scripture and religious authority. Hindus who are secure in their faith celebrate this freedom of thought and invite discourse in the Upanishadic tradition, rather than become insecure and defensive like some Hindutva-vadis.
Thanks for all your good work, Prof. Donegal.
Unlike newer religions such as Christianity, Islam and even Buddhism, Hinduism is vast and varied in its interpretation of its scriptures and even of the definitions of scripture and religious authority. Hindus who are secure in their faith celebrate this freedom of thought and invite discourse in the Upanishadic tradition, rather than become insecure and defensive like some Hindutva-vadis.
Thanks for all your good work, Prof. Donegal.
Jim R.
Minneapolis 9 hours agoHaving just returned from an amazing trip to "Incredible India," I have a new-found appreciation for the Hindu culture(s). I saw in India a multi-faceted society where for the most part people of widely different backgrounds, religions, languages and cultures live together with less conflict, road rage and daily anger than I find in contemporary America.
India's pluralistic tapestry is not without its detractors: like America, there are those who use every trick and loophole to limit free expression, shut down dialogue, and stifle alternative views.
It reaffirms my deepest commitment to a strict separation of Church and State, and to our First Amendment, as well as to tolerance of everything except intolerance.
India's pluralistic tapestry is not without its detractors: like America, there are those who use every trick and loophole to limit free expression, shut down dialogue, and stifle alternative views.
It reaffirms my deepest commitment to a strict separation of Church and State, and to our First Amendment, as well as to tolerance of everything except intolerance.
K.S.Venkatachalam
India 9 hours agoBy banning the book, Wendy has unwittingly gained lot of publicity to her book. There are always some lumpen elements in every society who assume the role of protectors of religion. We know what happened when cartoons on Prophet Mohammad was published in Denmark. We also know how Christian zealot groups react on books/articles denegrating Jesus Christ. I think in the interest of peace, we should stay away interpreting religions for it affects the sensibilities of people following different religions. Wendy, wes should not take freedom of expression too far!
Observer from the North
Montreal, Canada 9 hours agoMs Doniger ignored the most radical India’s own born critic of Hinduism, Buddhism. Gautama transformed from within the rather « confusing » amalgam of hindi traditions plenty of accomodating gods and profound social segregating power.
justice
Michigan 9 hours agoA pivotal question to ask of Wendy in evaluating her body of knowledge and expertise in Hinduism is: what is her command of Sanskrit? Any other major Indian languages?
If she is approaching this scholarship solely through English translations, then she is totally dependent on other's interpretations which are highly suspect because of their proclivity to paint themselves in a superior position. That is what imperialists and missionaries exist for.
If she is approaching this scholarship solely through English translations, then she is totally dependent on other's interpretations which are highly suspect because of their proclivity to paint themselves in a superior position. That is what imperialists and missionaries exist for.
Niloy
Malaysia 9 hours agoNYT - I love the way you pick comments. You have picked the one by Richard from Boulder Colorado which starts with the premise "India's outdated blasphemy laws".
Maybe you should have noted something one of the other readers had posted long before. INDIA HAS NO BLASPHEMY LAW. It unfortunately has other laws which are misused but the fact is there is no blasphemy law.
This is my whole beef with Ms Doniger's work. She has so many factual inaccuracies - every few lines one can pick up one. Even the assertion "the court agreed" is false. The book was withdrawn by Penguin citing the costs of litigation.
The feeling I keep getting is that the lady is less interested in truth but more in truthiness ala W.
Maybe you should have noted something one of the other readers had posted long before. INDIA HAS NO BLASPHEMY LAW. It unfortunately has other laws which are misused but the fact is there is no blasphemy law.
This is my whole beef with Ms Doniger's work. She has so many factual inaccuracies - every few lines one can pick up one. Even the assertion "the court agreed" is false. The book was withdrawn by Penguin citing the costs of litigation.
The feeling I keep getting is that the lady is less interested in truth but more in truthiness ala W.
Jay Saxena
San Francisco, CA 9 hours agoThere is a wide space between an educated, rational, (near) Ivy League academic who has devoted her life to studying Hinduism and largely illiterate, irrational, and emotionally charged masses that can be swayed by corrupt leaders.
Books should not be banned. But the Professor may want to consider that such books can quickly lead to riots and death of innocents in India.
Books should not be banned. But the Professor may want to consider that such books can quickly lead to riots and death of innocents in India.
Adi S
NY 9 hours agodid you ever think that from a position of privilege you are kind of exploiting the freedom and resources you enjoy and targeting the sentiments of those Hindus in a third world country majority of whom sometimes have nothing in this world to show for themselves except their faith! despite your hi-fi education you come across to me a glorified troll - there is a bigger revolution going on and you are lost to it completely
rakeshkapoor
London Ontario Canada 9 hours agoTalking or writing on aspects that deteriorate or blemish any religion is anyway wrong. We must always remember what the great C. Rajagopalachari wrote:
A) In the introduction of the Ramayana- ‘Mythology is an integral part of religion. It is as necessary as the skin and skeleton that preserve a fruit with its juice and its taste. Form is no less essential than substance. We cannot squeeze religion and hope to bottle and keep the essence by itself. Mythology and holy figures are necessary for any great culture to rest on its stable spiritual foundation and function as a life giving inspiration and guide.’
B) 'To interpret and evaluate the substance of the Upanishads, we need a powerful imagination and an intellectual elasticity that can jump over the tremendous space that divides the beliefs, aspirations and psychologies of modern life from those of long-past age.'
Let scholars write but Gita alerts us that to seek Moksha we must be free from anger, lust and greed in life. Incarnation, Rebirth and Moksha are vital concepts to understand the Yugas that govern the Universe in all glory and the thrill of religion cannot be taken away from people by any mortal. Let us respect all religions and concentrate on virtues like honesty and working hard to earn and develop a better society everyday.
A) In the introduction of the Ramayana- ‘Mythology is an integral part of religion. It is as necessary as the skin and skeleton that preserve a fruit with its juice and its taste. Form is no less essential than substance. We cannot squeeze religion and hope to bottle and keep the essence by itself. Mythology and holy figures are necessary for any great culture to rest on its stable spiritual foundation and function as a life giving inspiration and guide.’
B) 'To interpret and evaluate the substance of the Upanishads, we need a powerful imagination and an intellectual elasticity that can jump over the tremendous space that divides the beliefs, aspirations and psychologies of modern life from those of long-past age.'
Let scholars write but Gita alerts us that to seek Moksha we must be free from anger, lust and greed in life. Incarnation, Rebirth and Moksha are vital concepts to understand the Yugas that govern the Universe in all glory and the thrill of religion cannot be taken away from people by any mortal. Let us respect all religions and concentrate on virtues like honesty and working hard to earn and develop a better society everyday.
Nigel
NYC 10 hours agoWhat is astounding is how many people in the US do not understand that free speech protects speech that many might find offensive or hurtful or rude, as there is no need to protection of polite speech.
That said, the First Amendment applies only to the US and other countries have their own rules, which are mostly 'do not offend anyone ever'.
To an American, that seems hypocritical and stultifying, but each country has the right to make laws as fits its culture.
That said, the First Amendment applies only to the US and other countries have their own rules, which are mostly 'do not offend anyone ever'.
To an American, that seems hypocritical and stultifying, but each country has the right to make laws as fits its culture.
ACW
New Jersey 9 hours agoThe Germans made the same argument. Even aside from that, India does have a right to make its laws - and Americans have a right to criticise them.
Dan Stackhouse
NYC 8 hours agoThat makes sense Nigel, but surely we're entitled to remark on how a country with no right to free speech is oppressive, fascistic, and less advanced.
CR Dickens
Phoenix 10 hours agoA few questions: Where do you live? Are our laws valid worldwide? Why are you surprised?
India has their own laws for their protection and to protect those things that are of supreme importance to them. What's wrong with this country? We obviously think that the world should conform to western ways and laws. We think that might makes right and the by virtue of our membership in this elitist club we can tell and expect the world to Kowtow.
How incredible deluded... America... land of the Narcissist!
India has their own laws for their protection and to protect those things that are of supreme importance to them. What's wrong with this country? We obviously think that the world should conform to western ways and laws. We think that might makes right and the by virtue of our membership in this elitist club we can tell and expect the world to Kowtow.
How incredible deluded... America... land of the Narcissist!
Steve
USA 9 hours ago"We obviously think that the world should conform to western ways and laws."
The Indian Penal Code is based on *British* law dating to 1860:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_Penal_Code
The Indian Penal Code is based on *British* law dating to 1860:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_Penal_Code
Vexray
Spartanburg SC 10 hours ago"My case was simply the last straw, in part because of its timing, just when many in India had begun to view with horror the likelihood that the elections in May will put into power Narendra Modi ...:
Save Education Movement, a conservative Hindu activist group sued Penguin in 2011 over the book. Mr. Modi became a candidate in September 2013.
Save Education Movement, a conservative Hindu activist group sued Penguin in 2011 over the book. Mr. Modi became a candidate in September 2013.
HD
NY 11 hours agoOne day, some clever Indian Hindu child will grow up, learn a smattering of Hebrew, just enough to read it, then write prolifically about the sexual mythologies of the Torah and how modern Judaism is the religion of a small upper-caste close-minded elite, and push to publish her book in Israel, all the while wondering what the fuss is about from her home in Mumbai.
ACW
New Jersey 9 hours agoYou chose a bad target. The most vociferous critics of Judaism and Jewish culture are Jews. Much has indeed been written about the sexual themes of the Torah. often by Jewish scholars, and Judaism as a whole is less puritanical and sex-phobic than, e.g., Christianity. I'm far from a yeshiva hucher, but even my humble and inadequate little library of Judaica has some pretty startling books by Israeli scholars. If your hypothetical book were published in Israel it woudl join many other works on the shelves, and even the most vociferous among the Haredim would not succeed in getting it withdrawn and pulped.
RF FAn
Seattle, WA 8 hours agoLove it. The smug intellectual superiority of the likes of Doniger who can judge and comment on eastern religion/ philosophy/ life without getting beyond the basics is amusing to the say the least.
Dan Stackhouse
NYC 8 hours agoI agree with ACW, and also I think that every single religion should have many outside critics analyzing it and writing about their findings. If anyone thinks any human religion has not been corrupted by humans over the centuries, and is not in need of review and repair, then I think they're being dangerously naive.
Prabhu
India 11 hours agoShocking to read such an article from a so called "Scholar" Banned? By whom? "Court agreed that the book was a violation of India's Blasphemy law...."really? Which court?..when? Could Doniger please provide proof?.
If she can not truly interpret the meaning of "missionary zeal", what kind of scholarship is she professing?
And sorry, please do not lecture us about the dangers of "ultra right wing Hindu nationalists coming to power in India" We have been able to manage our affairs without sermons from such scholars....and, however awkwardly will continue to do so.
Meanwhile, Univ. of Chicago...please check the credentials of your scholars lest they do not become a liability.If she can not truly interpret the meaning of "missionary zeal", what kind of scholarship is she professing?
And sorry, please do not lecture us about the dangers of "ultra right wing Hindu nationalists coming to power in India" We have been able to manage our affairs without sermons from such scholars....and, however awkwardly will continue to do so.
Robert Coane
Nova Scotia/New York 11 hours agoTurn this to your advantage. It's all free press. Isaac Newton published many of his treatises in Holland because they wouldn't in England. Publish your book elsewhere. It'll be a guaranteed success in India.
"Blasphemy is a joyous, funny, socially progressive, and profoundly moral act."
~ PZ Myers
(b. 1957)
American scientist, associate professor of biology at the University of Minnesota, liberal atheist and evolutionist activist."Blasphemy is a joyous, funny, socially progressive, and profoundly moral act."
~ PZ Myers
(b. 1957)
RVP
India 11 hours ago1. People in India are excited about Narendra Modi coming to power not because of his allegiance to ultra-right wing Hindu nationalism as you claim, but because of this performance as Chief Minister in the state of Gujarat. (This is his fourth term: people of Gujarat chose him and BJP for the fourth consecutive time)
2. The author tries to condescend by saying several Indians called her motives Christian missionary type, when in fact she is a Jew. It would be interesting to see how many Americans can differentiate between Sikhs and Muslims / Arabs. I do not defend such ignorance on behalf of Indians but it sounds like such stupidity is inherent in Indians and ought to be laughed at by friends and family in NY or others in general.
3. If you have been "studying" Hinduism / Hindutva / Hindu Dharma (which all mean different things in different contexts), you would have known that Hindu / Hinduism is not a religion (end of this article), it is a philosophy of life. You cannot compare it with Christianity, Judaism, or Islam which are all religions and call its followers to necessarily observe certain fundamentals.
4. Lastly, NYT has published this oped by Ms. Doniger which looks more like a promotional article for her book. Mr Batra should indeed have ignored this book and let it die its death of anonymity since real scholars of study of India and Hinduism would not have referred to it anyway given its low scholarly value and lack of reputation of the author.2. The author tries to condescend by saying several Indians called her motives Christian missionary type, when in fact she is a Jew. It would be interesting to see how many Americans can differentiate between Sikhs and Muslims / Arabs. I do not defend such ignorance on behalf of Indians but it sounds like such stupidity is inherent in Indians and ought to be laughed at by friends and family in NY or others in general.
3. If you have been "studying" Hinduism / Hindutva / Hindu Dharma (which all mean different things in different contexts), you would have known that Hindu / Hinduism is not a religion (end of this article), it is a philosophy of life. You cannot compare it with Christianity, Judaism, or Islam which are all religions and call its followers to necessarily observe certain fundamentals.
JPEC
Huntington, NY 11 hours ago
Nosacredcow
Tampa 11 hours agoOne common theme that I've noticed, whether it's the Hindutva or evangelical Christians or Wahhabi Muslim...
Those that are most repressed are ultimately the most oppressive.
Those that are most repressed are ultimately the most oppressive.
Amazing
US 11 hours agoCORRECTION: It should be India recently "upheld" a law criminalizing homosexuality. Nothing has been "passed" (as in a legislature) since 1861 when Section 377 was instituted by the British. Big oversight from a historian.
Roy
Warrensburg 11 hours agoAmericans are taught to abide by law, a sound advice, but so are Indians where they also DO have laws. One such law is meant to guard against inflaming religious sentiments to maintain peace and harmony in the world's most religiously diverse society. Mr. Batra, the complainant against Ms. Doniger's book, lodged his complaint with the publisher on the basis of the Indian law and the publisher realized based on contents of the book that it had little to no chance of winning in court, so it withdrew the book. Is Ms. Doniger now advocating that India should change its laws? Should U.S. change its laws on freedom of expression because just last week a U.S. court ordered YouTube to take down an anti-Muslim video, apparently after global repercussions? What is going on here? Aren’t evangelical organizations often funding “scholars”, who then produce agenda-driven books to undermine religions that do not fit into what they claim to be "true" religions (Christianity, Judaism, Islam)? Read internationally acclaimed Indian philosopher S. Radhakrishnan’s books on Hinduism to know its true meaning and tolerance it preaches that the world needs right now.
Guptan Veemboor
Bangalore 11 hours agoI think that Indian Government has not banned this book. I wonder why. Indian Government is always ready to ban anything at the drop of a hat and has not done it. Probably Batra did not bother to convey his objections to GOI. If he had it would have banned it pronto like 'Satanic Verses' or adaptation of 'The last Temptation of Jesus Cjhrist' and others. Probably Penguin withdraw the book before the GOI got a chance for a repeat performance. India has the most stupid laws in the world. You write in FaceBook and you can be arrested. Recently someone has written in Facebook about the autobiographical book on 'The Hugging Saint' by an old inmate and the person who wrote in FB is being harassed by police. Someone who agreed with a posting on Bal Thackrey was arrested along with the person who posted the original. And India is the worlds greatest democracy.
haren joshi
Huntingdon valley pa 11 hours agoNo body has right to criticize and hurt followers of any religion under guise of free speech. Wendy only publicize sexuality of Hindu religion for cheap publicity.why call hindutwa ? Do you ever call jewishtwa, islamitwa or cristiantwa?.i am glad somebody has courage to call spade as spade banning the book. Kudos to a retired teacher . Why blame narendra Mody . I hope he becomes next prime minister Wendy is correctly afraid of.
Harvard Alumni
San Francisco, CA 11 hours agoMs. Wendy Doniger, couldn't you find enough depth in your own 3,000 year old jewish religion that you had to poke your nose in somebody else's religion half-way across the world. Who are you to hold opinions on other people's belief system? Have You become the Almighty to pass judgement on other people's religion in the garb of academic inquiry? Have you ever experienced Hinduism by living in India. You are an arrogant person passing judgements on distant civilizations while sitting in Chicago. You claim to understand Hinduism better that 1 billion people who are born in it and breath it every day.
Exdetroiter
New Delhi 11 hours agoBy the way, the book is banned in all of India, not just Bangalore
Madhuri
Bengaluru 11 hours agoDoniger is trying to sell her books.
There is no BAN on the book. Some parties threatened to take her publishers to court for what they construed as unlawful publication. The publishers have thought about it and withdrawn the book. I repeat there is NO BAN, the publishers have withdrawn the book in view of impending case against them.
Read again what she writes - the missionaries thought hinduism was 'filthy paganism..... and that is what I love and want to write about".
And she brings irrelevant arguments like Modi into it. It is the equivalent of Godwin's law in India. Any argument, any discussion (especially by left wingers) will bring Narendra Modi in it.There is no BAN on the book. Some parties threatened to take her publishers to court for what they construed as unlawful publication. The publishers have thought about it and withdrawn the book. I repeat there is NO BAN, the publishers have withdrawn the book in view of impending case against them.
Read again what she writes - the missionaries thought hinduism was 'filthy paganism..... and that is what I love and want to write about".
A C Rao MD FACS
NEW YORK 11 hours agoPmreddy19
NY 8 hours agoMr. Rao,
There is no ban on the book in India. The publisher of the book decided to revoke the copies from.the market and pulp them. I hope any book publisher has a right to decide on what action to take when there is any opposition for any book published by them.
There is no ban on the book in India. The publisher of the book decided to revoke the copies from.the market and pulp them. I hope any book publisher has a right to decide on what action to take when there is any opposition for any book published by them.
fortress America
nyc 11 hours agoTrue in this country also, offenses against religious sensibilities
we have a nearby discussion of Arizona and religious freedom or religious bigotry
maybe we can include Islam's fatwa against mr Rushdie Muslims kill over blasphemy, or maybe they attack US embassies, or Danish cartoons against PBUH
add them to the list...
if you dare
Muslims and Hindus had it out, sort of in 1948 and Indian partition and nothing has changed
or is our outrage selective ( as if we have to ask)
we have a nearby discussion of Arizona and religious freedom or religious bigotry
maybe we can include Islam's fatwa against mr Rushdie Muslims kill over blasphemy, or maybe they attack US embassies, or Danish cartoons against PBUH
add them to the list...
if you dare
Muslims and Hindus had it out, sort of in 1948 and Indian partition and nothing has changed
or is our outrage selective ( as if we have to ask)
Shaurya
Dark Side of the Moon 12 hours agoMore discussions on the general contempt and derision of India and Hindus on this board. http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=6750&p=1604...
IamNotJoeThePlumber
Boston 12 hours agoThe author has her own intentions when she makes a living of talking and writing about Hinduism. She would be more happy to rake up controversy and walk laughing to the bank. All that talk is among Indian elite both liberal and not so liberal but for an average common man on Indian street it is all Tamasha.
Kalika Bali
India 12 hours agoMs. Doniger's justification misses its own point : That a DISTRICT court banned the book, not the Supreme Court.
While researching whether India has banned the book, it seems to me that is not at all the case and it seems to me that the defendants avoided fighting the case any further.
While her defense of her book is welcome, I am satisfied that "India" has not yet failed the test.
And her commentary of caution against Hindu prudes is useful, that is not a new threat to Hindu liberal thought. We will have to keep standing up for own atheism as a religion and remember that Hinduism is path of right conduct that is aware of deviation and not merely one of adherence to formulations.
It seems to me that the interpretation of the facts has not been done accurately.
While researching whether India has banned the book, it seems to me that is not at all the case and it seems to me that the defendants avoided fighting the case any further.
While her defense of her book is welcome, I am satisfied that "India" has not yet failed the test.
And her commentary of caution against Hindu prudes is useful, that is not a new threat to Hindu liberal thought. We will have to keep standing up for own atheism as a religion and remember that Hinduism is path of right conduct that is aware of deviation and not merely one of adherence to formulations.
It seems to me that the interpretation of the facts has not been done accurately.
Pankaj
Sydney 12 hours agoOffcourse, their sympathies are wasted. Doniger is getting free publicity and making more money.
LNS
Princeton, NJ 12 hours agoA very populist op-ed unfortunately.
The book's pulping by the publisher was a business decision. There were no protests ion the streets. It was merely the consequence of an out of court settlement. There's no reason to bring in Narendra Modi here - he had nothing to do with the court case or Penguin's decision to do whatever they did.
If New York Times does not give space to a prolific essayist and thinker like Noam Chomsky is it because the Republican Party has taken over NYT's editorial desk?
The headline says it all. Why Bangalore in the headline? It's just being catchy, I suppose. Just like her Freudian analyses of Hinduism. Sex is catchy and sells.
Nobody questions Prof Doniger's scholarship. It's what use her scholarship is being put to - that's at issue here. For the readers of New York Times, she has thrown a good measure of references to Nazis and anti Semitism too.
Very disappointing op-ed from a tenured professor and that too, from a purported scholar.
The book's pulping by the publisher was a business decision. There were no protests ion the streets. It was merely the consequence of an out of court settlement. There's no reason to bring in Narendra Modi here - he had nothing to do with the court case or Penguin's decision to do whatever they did.
If New York Times does not give space to a prolific essayist and thinker like Noam Chomsky is it because the Republican Party has taken over NYT's editorial desk?
The headline says it all. Why Bangalore in the headline? It's just being catchy, I suppose. Just like her Freudian analyses of Hinduism. Sex is catchy and sells.
Nobody questions Prof Doniger's scholarship. It's what use her scholarship is being put to - that's at issue here. For the readers of New York Times, she has thrown a good measure of references to Nazis and anti Semitism too.
Very disappointing op-ed from a tenured professor and that too, from a purported scholar.
BenneDose
Bangalore 12 hours agoThe title "Banned in Bangalore" is a cheap attention grabbing title for an article by a person whose book was withdrawn by her publisher and not banned. Wendy Doniger makes two basic errors in her article, which sounds like a bad case of sour grapes
1. She counters the accusation that her work displays Christian missionary zeal by saying that she "grew up" in a Jewish household. Doniger does not seem to know that what a person says or does in life is not stamped into permanence by the environment in which one grows up. Growing up in a Jewish environment does not exclude her work from having a Christian missionary zeal.
2. Doniger displays a surprising ignorance of a simple Sanskrit derived word which she has learned to hate based on her political preferences. Why Doniger should have a political preference in India mystifies me. She says she is fighting "Hindutva-vadis". She describes "Hindutva" as "Hinduness". A better translation would be "the state of being Hindu". The suffix "-vadi" means "practitioner of"
So Wendy Doniger is an opponent of those who are "practitioners of the state of being Hindu" (Hindutva-vadis) . If one is a practicing Hindu then Doniger will fight you.
That is exactly the problem Madam. Your Freudian slip reveals your state of mind. You claim to "defend Hinduism" by fighting one group of Hindus whom you disagree with. Your views are biased and parochial. I expect neutrality from a scholar. Clearly you have missed that bus Prof. Doniger.
1. She counters the accusation that her work displays Christian missionary zeal by saying that she "grew up" in a Jewish household. Doniger does not seem to know that what a person says or does in life is not stamped into permanence by the environment in which one grows up. Growing up in a Jewish environment does not exclude her work from having a Christian missionary zeal.
2. Doniger displays a surprising ignorance of a simple Sanskrit derived word which she has learned to hate based on her political preferences. Why Doniger should have a political preference in India mystifies me. She says she is fighting "Hindutva-vadis". She describes "Hindutva" as "Hinduness". A better translation would be "the state of being Hindu". The suffix "-vadi" means "practitioner of"
So Wendy Doniger is an opponent of those who are "practitioners of the state of being Hindu" (Hindutva-vadis) . If one is a practicing Hindu then Doniger will fight you.
That is exactly the problem Madam. Your Freudian slip reveals your state of mind. You claim to "defend Hinduism" by fighting one group of Hindus whom you disagree with. Your views are biased and parochial. I expect neutrality from a scholar. Clearly you have missed that bus Prof. Doniger.
Steve
USA 9 hours ago'She describes "Hindutva" as "Hinduness". A better translation would be "the state of being Hindu". The suffix "-vadi" means "practitioner of"'
The "-ness" noun suffix means what you suggest:
": state : condition : quality : degree "
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/-ness
The "-ness" noun suffix means what you suggest:
": state : condition : quality : degree "
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/-ness
Sam
new york 12 hours agoSalman Rushdie's 'Satanic verses' was banned by the government of India. The ban on Doniger's work was sought in a court of law where it was settled outside by the publishers. There's a significant difference in theway two cases panned out - one overtly political in its appeasement of muslims & the other entirely legal,though the outcome may be the same.
Richard
Boulder, Colorado 12 hours agoProfessor Doniger's challenge to India's outdated blasphemy law is important and inspired. Unfortunately her post feeds the canard that anything wrong in India today can be blamed on the British. It is true that colonial officials worked with traditional Indian elites; in much of the country British rule was indirect, through alliances with majarajahs and other princes. Control over such a vast country (now three) could not have been maintained otherwise. Moreover, it is important that independent India take full responsibility for its policies.
Darker
LI, NY 10 hours agoIn many ways it was in the interest of the British to keep India backward!
Deepak Sarma
Cleveland, OH 13 hours agoIgnacio Gotz
Point Harbor, NC 13 hours agoI lived in India for many years, and have written about it, though not as much as Dr. Doniger has, nor as eloquently as she has. But years ago I learned that there is this character trait about Indians: they do not bear being criticized by non-Indians. They themselves may criticize themselves bitterly, but they do not suffer "foreigners" to do so. It is a long standing bias against such criticism, dating to remarks made by Max Weber that were seen as misunderstanding of Hinduism and India in general. This trend against criticism is now amplified by fundamentalists and nationalists, and by people in India who, in fact, know little about their own country's history and religion. The mere fact of being Indian and living in India does not confer unassailable knowledge on anybody.
I have read other books by Dr. Doniger, and have ordered her new book from Amazon. I look forward to reading it and learning what I, myself, may have missed during the many years I spent in that beautiful land.
I have read other books by Dr. Doniger, and have ordered her new book from Amazon. I look forward to reading it and learning what I, myself, may have missed during the many years I spent in that beautiful land.
MP
PA 12 hours agoIgnacio Gotz writes, "this character trait about Indians: they do not bear being criticized by non-Indians. They themselves may criticize themselves bitterly, but they do not suffer "foreigners" to do so."
Oh please. This is hardly an Indian character trait -- it's human nature. Do name a country in which most people are not belligerent in the face of criticism by outsiders.
Oh please. This is hardly an Indian character trait -- it's human nature. Do name a country in which most people are not belligerent in the face of criticism by outsiders.
rjb_boston
boston 10 hours agocould not agree more. people can disagree but to react with strident prose is counter productive to thoughtful discourse. at the very least, all these belligerent comments from so called supporters of hinduism are an irritant to those who value decency in discourse and thought.
Shaurya
Dark Side of the Moon 13 hours agohhhman
NJ 11 hours agoSemantics.
Cruze
Princeton, NJ 13 hours agoI'm saddened by the reaction of many "Hindus" to her book. However, picking up Yeats' chiliastic verse is a tactically wrong come-back. It only gives more ammo to an insecure, superficial horde who cannot see the grandness, depth, & richness of the many dharmic traditions. I hope NYT gives voice to other Hindu intellectuals and western academics who are proposing newer ways to "gaze" at Hinduism. Ms. Doniger is but one but there others who address why & how some Hindus are insecure & perturbed about being misunderstood, misrepresented, maligned, marginalized. Whether those feelings are misplaced or legitimate will surface in such a discourse.
Coming back to this essay, Ms. Doniger is factually wrong on many counts. The book was not banned. India is still a weak state and gives in to the pressures of all sorts. It banned Midnight Express in response to Muslim umbrage as well as Satanic Verses. The list of bans is long.
I hope others see India in the larger, historical context. I hope Hindus do not give in to insecurities that muffle the same free expression that has allowed the dharmic traditions to flourish (poorva paksha !). Example: although I have been a Hindu atheist (Carvaka), I was never so well-read. Now I'm reading much more. Including the poets of my language such as Tyagaraja, Kshetrayya, Sarangapani, (some of which Doniger's guru, Ramanujam, translated). Fascinating, incredible! I might not attain moksha but that's not my aim. I think I'm a better Hindu.
Coming back to this essay, Ms. Doniger is factually wrong on many counts. The book was not banned. India is still a weak state and gives in to the pressures of all sorts. It banned Midnight Express in response to Muslim umbrage as well as Satanic Verses. The list of bans is long.
I hope others see India in the larger, historical context. I hope Hindus do not give in to insecurities that muffle the same free expression that has allowed the dharmic traditions to flourish (poorva paksha !). Example: although I have been a Hindu atheist (Carvaka), I was never so well-read. Now I'm reading much more. Including the poets of my language such as Tyagaraja, Kshetrayya, Sarangapani, (some of which Doniger's guru, Ramanujam, translated). Fascinating, incredible! I might not attain moksha but that's not my aim. I think I'm a better Hindu.
Marina
New York 13 hours agoThe problems with Ms. Doniger's position are numerous: first of all, there is no blasphemy law in India- she means the hate speech laws, which are part of the British era criminal code. There were multiple civil claims as well, which she does not discuss, and there was a settlement of those, mid-trial, at which moment Penguin India obviously made a decision that settlement was the preferable alternative to litigating the four year old case any further. Perhaps putting Ms. Doniger on the witness stand would have been too risky. Going by the present outcry from all and sundry, there would be been public pressure on Penguin to litigate this dismal matter through every possible appeal, with little of substance to go on, particularly if she had incriminated herself in the trial court. Her lack of respect for the process mirrors her lack of respect for her subject matter, which can be easily sampled in the book.
motormouth
NY 10 hours ago
The "hate speech laws" apply specifically to religions. There is, for example, no protection against hate speech against homosexuals, or against people of other states in India, or a heck of a lot of people would be in jail. Therefore, the "hate speech laws" are de facto blasphemy laws.
MP
PA 13 hours agoAs a someone whose die-hard secularism was born and nurtured in India, I find Prof Doniger's op-ed deeply frustrating. In addition to the factual errors and misrepresentations cited by RB and others, I'd like to point out that the true villain in this case is Penguin. Penguin had the financial resources but chose not to pursue this stupid case, which was brought to trial by some bit-player know-nothings, and would never have stood up in court.
Why did Penguin choose not to pursue the case? It has been argued that they didn't want to spend the money, but that's just the tip of the iceberg. Who but a handful of academics and intellectuals would have bothered with Doniger's book, or even heard about it, had Penguin not withdrawn the case? Suddenly it's generating sales neither Penguin nor Doniger could have anticipated. They will be crying about free speech all the way to the bank.
Why did Penguin choose not to pursue the case? It has been argued that they didn't want to spend the money, but that's just the tip of the iceberg. Who but a handful of academics and intellectuals would have bothered with Doniger's book, or even heard about it, had Penguin not withdrawn the case? Suddenly it's generating sales neither Penguin nor Doniger could have anticipated. They will be crying about free speech all the way to the bank.
Harsh Vora
India 13 hours ago"My case was simply the last straw, in part because of its timing, just when many in India had begun to view with horror the likelihood that the elections in May will put into power Narendra Modi, a member of the ultra-right wing of the Hindu nationalist Bharatiya Janata Party."
Ms. Doniger, many in India are also horrified by the prospect of a pretend-liberal party winning the elections and continuing its inefficient policies in difficult economic times. The point is you cannot generalise the political opinion of a country that is as varied and diverse as India.
The debate in question — censorship — is always a complex one in large democracies. In theory, freedom of speech seems to be the most important of rights, the one that should be upheld at any cost. In practice, no country has so far succeeded in ensuring freedom of speech in its totality.
Just because someone is sensitive to how his/her faith is portrayed, it doesn't mean the person is ultra-conservative. I do not believe in religion, but I feel the compelling need for circumspection when I am dealing with the issue in public domain.
As you have rightly pointed out, there is a large section of liberal Indians who support your argument. With time, there will be even more in a democracy that is still very young. But in the meantime, the 'ultra-conservatives' cannot not be denied their right to object to criticism or assessment of their faith, irrespective of how weak or absurd their argument is.
Ms. Doniger, many in India are also horrified by the prospect of a pretend-liberal party winning the elections and continuing its inefficient policies in difficult economic times. The point is you cannot generalise the political opinion of a country that is as varied and diverse as India.
The debate in question — censorship — is always a complex one in large democracies. In theory, freedom of speech seems to be the most important of rights, the one that should be upheld at any cost. In practice, no country has so far succeeded in ensuring freedom of speech in its totality.
Just because someone is sensitive to how his/her faith is portrayed, it doesn't mean the person is ultra-conservative. I do not believe in religion, but I feel the compelling need for circumspection when I am dealing with the issue in public domain.
As you have rightly pointed out, there is a large section of liberal Indians who support your argument. With time, there will be even more in a democracy that is still very young. But in the meantime, the 'ultra-conservatives' cannot not be denied their right to object to criticism or assessment of their faith, irrespective of how weak or absurd their argument is.
Petey Tonei
Massachusetts 13 hours agoWendy, take heart. No need to get all political about it. Your predecessor, the esteemed Dr AK Ramanujan who founded the South Asian Languages and Civilizations at U Chicago, and wrote marvelous and astounding works of translating Tamil poems, and beautifully illustrated Folktales from India, was not spared controversy and protests for his essay, Three Hundred Ramayanas: Five Examples and Three Thoughts on Translations.
rustyprose
New York 13 hours agoBanning this book is atrociaous. The writer is not exactly the darling of Hindu religion which is more ancient than the Abrahamic religions. It is easy to find fault with a religion: Earth was created in 4004 B.C. Adam was born of the dust and Eve was born out of Adam's rib. The Twice-Born came out of the Mouth of Virat Purusha. The popularity of a book is not a sign of its authenticity, which loses its meaning in phrases like An Alternate History. Some Indians are not precise in the use of words. Instead of Christian Misionary Zeal, Abrahamic zeal would be more appropriate, though I question its implications. It is noble that the book celebrates oral and vernacular literatures of the lower castes. Anthropomorphizing monkeys, donkeys, cobras as lower castes and tribals is another thing, while the horses are the upper castes. The Hindus object to the perceived prurience and obsession with Linga.
Mandeep
U.S.A. 13 hours agoApproaching Hinduism or Sanatana Dharma from a secular, academic position is a waste of time, as it is with any religion or spiritual path. If anyone wants to know what Hinduism is, practice one of its many liberating paths.
Jack
13 hours ago
As an author worth my salt, my first inclination would be to tell the truth to my readers. I would offer a heartfelt apology to the Hindus and state that I had no intention of maligning their religion. All I was doing was deciphering their religion to the west.
I see no evidence of that, which make me think that she did have an agenda.
I see no evidence of that, which make me think that she did have an agenda.
IamNotJoeThePlumber
Boston 11 hours agoDecipher and make lots of money. Before the controversy her books on Amazon sold from 0.99 to under 9.99. Now they sore 16.00 and above.
Rajat Sen
St. Petersburg, FL 13 hours agoFree speech is not absolute -- not even in the US. Society, always puts moral restrictions on free speech and the Courts interpret those restrictions and define what is permissible. It has been this way since the concept of free speech was introduced.
So, although I do not agree with the Indian Court's decision, I certainly can understand it. Religious passions are often inflamed in India, by political parties (both left and right) to win votes and turn the public's eye from the corruption and failures. Hundreds of people die when that happens. It is unfortunate but very true. This verdict therefore, must be seen in that context. If the formal banning of this book ( which as the author admits has no real effect on the availability of the book) can save a life, I am probably for it. I am not an absolute free speech advocate.Observer
NY 13 hours agoThis article is a good example of Ms. Doniger's style of scholarship. The title suggests her book was banned which it was not - her publisher chose to withdraw the book from the market. She sidesteps the question of why the publisher did that, when other books that were banned in India presumably had their publishers standing up for them until they were legally banned by the Indian courts. Citing threats to life and limb is ridiculous, as there has not been a single instance of public protest or vandalism in this context. Her opponent merely filed a civilized lawsuit. Under a law that, until now, had been used many times by Muslims, Christians and the ruling Congress party, but not by Hindus.
Her next tactic of labeling all her critics as narrow-minded, fundamentalist, right-wing bigots is even more reprehensible. It makes her guilty of the worst sort of intellectual terrorism, when it is a plain fact that Ms. Doniger has not only cornered the mainstream academic narrative on Hinduism but the alternative opinion as well! Why not accept these divergent viewpoints of her critics in the best traditions of Hindu pluralism? Mr. Rajiv Malhotra, a writer and vocal critic of Doniger, has publicly complained that he has been repeatedly denied access to participate in conferences and debate with her.
I will not even comment on the gratuitous reference to Mr. Modi, and her setting herself up as the defender of the faith.Her next tactic of labeling all her critics as narrow-minded, fundamentalist, right-wing bigots is even more reprehensible. It makes her guilty of the worst sort of intellectual terrorism, when it is a plain fact that Ms. Doniger has not only cornered the mainstream academic narrative on Hinduism but the alternative opinion as well! Why not accept these divergent viewpoints of her critics in the best traditions of Hindu pluralism? Mr. Rajiv Malhotra, a writer and vocal critic of Doniger, has publicly complained that he has been repeatedly denied access to participate in conferences and debate with her.
Melissa
New York 13 hours agoAnd what year is this? Books are still being banned lol
LNS
Princeton, NJ 11 hours agoIs Noam Chomsky banned from the New York Times or from CNN? How come we never see him on media. What year is this?
Melissa, the publisher chose to withdraw the book as part of an out of court settlement. The Doniger camp keep repeating the canard that her book was banned. Frankly, it's become like Trump's birther issue.
Melissa, the publisher chose to withdraw the book as part of an out of court settlement. The Doniger camp keep repeating the canard that her book was banned. Frankly, it's become like Trump's birther issue.
MP
PA 10 hours agoKV Larsen
Boston 13 hours agoSanatana Dharma is not, as Ms. Doniger suggest, a 'sanitized' version of Hinduism. Sanatana Dharma has to do with the eternal , inner teaching underlying all religions--in other words, akin to what Aldous Huxley called the"Perennial Philosophy." It embodies the highest, subtlest traditional aspects of Advaita Vedanta. It is high-handed Hegelianism on Ms Doniger's part. It is laughable and purblind to suggest that it was part of an attempt to make Hinduism more palatable to the West; ; Ms Doniger completely misses the point of Sanatana Dharma.
Diana Moses above asks a valid question about the effectiveness of the author's method about advocating populist strands of Hinduism. If only she could champion her views in a way similar to that of Jacob Needleman, e.g., in speaking about Christianity. It is not valid to denigrate an esoteric or idealistic spiritual tradition and show extreme disrespect to and diimiinish, as it were, its ancient spiritual texts in order to further a sociological bias and advocate a revisionist agenda in favor of 'polytheism.'
Ms. Doniger is turning the acceptance and eucumenical tolerance of Hinduism on its head. Ms. Doniger's book, I submit, is an extremist interpretation of Sanatana Dharma. It is most unfortunate that the matter came to such a drastic disposition of 'pulping' her book.Diana Moses above asks a valid question about the effectiveness of the author's method about advocating populist strands of Hinduism. If only she could champion her views in a way similar to that of Jacob Needleman, e.g., in speaking about Christianity. It is not valid to denigrate an esoteric or idealistic spiritual tradition and show extreme disrespect to and diimiinish, as it were, its ancient spiritual texts in order to further a sociological bias and advocate a revisionist agenda in favor of 'polytheism.'
Rahul Ajith
San Diego 13 hours agoWhile I respect your freedom of speech, I think it is also important to take the law of the land into account. I have not read your book yet, but India is a society where communal passions inflame. Unlike America, India does many times curtail freedom of speech in order to prevent violence and riots, which lead to loss of life. Until a vast majority of Indians mature to a point where people must take religious criticism in their stride, such preventive actions are needed.
I also get a sense of Anti-Modi/Anti-BJP, or even anti hindu nationalism in your article. If Modi were to win this election, it would be because of the development and growth he has brought into the state of Gujarat, which people hope to replicate in rest of India.Supreme court of India said that "Hindutva" has little to do with Hindus and has defined it as "the way of life of the Indian people and the Indian culture or ethos". The only thing "Hindu Nationalists" demand is a uniform civil code to stop "minority appeasement" efforts
You must also get your facts right. India DID NOT recently pass a law that criminalizes homosexuality. That law was inherited from the British administration and India did nothing about it all these years. Few years back, the Delhi High court de-criminalized gay sex as it claimed that the 'anti-homosexuality' law contradicted a different law. What happened recently was that judgement was reversed by the higher Supreme Court.
I will read your book when I get the time
- Rahul
I also get a sense of Anti-Modi/Anti-BJP, or even anti hindu nationalism in your article. If Modi were to win this election, it would be because of the development and growth he has brought into the state of Gujarat, which people hope to replicate in rest of India.Supreme court of India said that "Hindutva" has little to do with Hindus and has defined it as "the way of life of the Indian people and the Indian culture or ethos". The only thing "Hindu Nationalists" demand is a uniform civil code to stop "minority appeasement" efforts
You must also get your facts right. India DID NOT recently pass a law that criminalizes homosexuality. That law was inherited from the British administration and India did nothing about it all these years. Few years back, the Delhi High court de-criminalized gay sex as it claimed that the 'anti-homosexuality' law contradicted a different law. What happened recently was that judgement was reversed by the higher Supreme Court.
I will read your book when I get the time
- Rahul
PA
Albany NY 13 hours agoI have to come honest here. In the last five hundred years when people set sail to discover Which ever country. It has always been "Trade", "Business", "Money" at the cost of everything God made. And God did not make Money. Business people are the new Intellectuals.
Money Corrupts, Power Corrupts. You will find out soon.
Money Corrupts, Power Corrupts. You will find out soon.
RP
SF 13 hours agoMs Doniger, I hope you understand that religion is a very sensitive topic that can evoke passionate responses. Depicting someone else's God in a sexual light is an easy way to stir an hornets' nest. I'm sure the Christians in America wouldn't appreciate Mary and Jesus being portrayed as sexual and erotic figures either.
Regarding the free speech issue, there are numerous countries which restrict free speech in certain areas. Germany for example, does not allow holocaust denials, no matter how intellectually based it might be. Plenty of other countries have similar laws against hate speech as well. Even here in America, Time magazine caved to public pressure and declined to name Osama Bin Laden as 2011 person of the year, even though he fit the bill according to their methodology. It hardly comes as news me that Indian society isn't very welcoming of a book that depicts their sacrosanct Gods in a degrading and blasphemous way.
Regarding the free speech issue, there are numerous countries which restrict free speech in certain areas. Germany for example, does not allow holocaust denials, no matter how intellectually based it might be. Plenty of other countries have similar laws against hate speech as well. Even here in America, Time magazine caved to public pressure and declined to name Osama Bin Laden as 2011 person of the year, even though he fit the bill according to their methodology. It hardly comes as news me that Indian society isn't very welcoming of a book that depicts their sacrosanct Gods in a degrading and blasphemous way.
MN
India 13 hours agoI am an Indian, an atheist and a rational thinker who likes science. I think capitalism should be properly regulated. I think homosexuality is a natural thing and that applying morality on this issue is a monumentally wrong and unjust thing. In short, I am, what you would consider a liberal.
And yet, I do not view with horror the likelihood that the elections will bring Narendra Modi to power. He is not the monster that you are painting him out to be. I suspect that if he does win power, and after a few years, people will realise that things are more or less the same as they were. And if corruption does come down and if the economy improves, it will be a good thing.
One more thing that you failed to highlight is that it was Indian 'liberals' who first led to Salman Rushdie's book, 'The Satanic Verses' being banned in India - and it was in India that this notion was born that this book was hurting religious sentiments of Muslims, and which then snowballed all over the world and ultimately led to a fatwa being issued for the death of Rushdie. If I remember correctly, it was Khushwant Singh, the writer and columnist, and one other lady writer whose name I can't recall, who first recommended that the book be banned.
And yet, I do not view with horror the likelihood that the elections will bring Narendra Modi to power. He is not the monster that you are painting him out to be. I suspect that if he does win power, and after a few years, people will realise that things are more or less the same as they were. And if corruption does come down and if the economy improves, it will be a good thing.
One more thing that you failed to highlight is that it was Indian 'liberals' who first led to Salman Rushdie's book, 'The Satanic Verses' being banned in India - and it was in India that this notion was born that this book was hurting religious sentiments of Muslims, and which then snowballed all over the world and ultimately led to a fatwa being issued for the death of Rushdie. If I remember correctly, it was Khushwant Singh, the writer and columnist, and one other lady writer whose name I can't recall, who first recommended that the book be banned.
Steve
USA 13 hours ago"If Mr. Batra’s intention was to keep people from reading the book, it certainly backfired: ..."
What's more, the lawsuit and publicity got people reading the Indian Penal Code ... :-)
The complete legal notice with reasons and purposes can be found online.[1] The document cites several sections of the Indian Penal Code:
"46. That the above said acts of YOU NOTICEEs are offence publishable under the provisions of Section 153, 153A, 295A, 298, 505(2) of Indian Penal Code and for the commission of this offence all of you can be imprisoned for a term which may extend to 3 years and with fine."
In particular, it cites Section 295A, which imposes a possible penalty of up to three years in prison and a fine:[2]
"Section 295A. Deliberate and malicious acts, intended to outrage religious feelings or any class by insulting its religion or religious beliefs"
According to the online notes, Section 295A was added to the IPC in 1927, so it is a holdover from the time of the British Raj.
[1] Sh. DINA NATH BATRA SEND LEGAL NOTICE TO WENDY DONIGER
Ref No.254/LN/0310
Dated: 03.3.2010
http://www.concernedhistorians.org/content_files/file/LE/264.pdf
[2]http://www.vakilno1.com/bareacts/indianpenalcode/indianpenalcode.html#Se...
What's more, the lawsuit and publicity got people reading the Indian Penal Code ... :-)
The complete legal notice with reasons and purposes can be found online.[1] The document cites several sections of the Indian Penal Code:
"46. That the above said acts of YOU NOTICEEs are offence publishable under the provisions of Section 153, 153A, 295A, 298, 505(2) of Indian Penal Code and for the commission of this offence all of you can be imprisoned for a term which may extend to 3 years and with fine."
In particular, it cites Section 295A, which imposes a possible penalty of up to three years in prison and a fine:[2]
"Section 295A. Deliberate and malicious acts, intended to outrage religious feelings or any class by insulting its religion or religious beliefs"
According to the online notes, Section 295A was added to the IPC in 1927, so it is a holdover from the time of the British Raj.
[1] Sh. DINA NATH BATRA SEND LEGAL NOTICE TO WENDY DONIGER
Ref No.254/LN/0310
Dated: 03.3.2010
http://www.concernedhistorians.org/content_files/file/LE/264.pdf
[2]http://www.vakilno1.com/bareacts/indianpenalcode/indianpenalcode.html#Se...
Arun
NJ 14 hours agoWendy Doniger and her students' depiction of Hindus is equivalent to someone taking the Catholic Mass and the idea of transubstantiation, and the general warfare is said will occur when Jesus returns; and thereby depicting European culture as one of a sublimated cannibalistic and genocidal people.
From the above, I hope that when I say that while Doniger's book should not have been banned in India, the offhand way in which opposition to her ideas is termed as "Hindu fundamentalist" is deeply offensive. I have suspended my subscription to the New York Times for two weeks for providing Doniger a platform to spread her propaganda.
From the above, I hope that when I say that while Doniger's book should not have been banned in India, the offhand way in which opposition to her ideas is termed as "Hindu fundamentalist" is deeply offensive. I have suspended my subscription to the New York Times for two weeks for providing Doniger a platform to spread her propaganda.
tta
boston 15 hours agoThe comments below seem to point to an number of factual fallacies or misrepresentations in Doniger's op-ed. Where were the factcheckers? Is it fair to ask, once the dust has settled, whether a similar element of sensationalism runs through Doniger's book (in much the way one detects glee in Doniger's tone that she's become the object of so much media attention?)
Doniger uses an anecdote about anti-Semitic message to get to her point about Victorian missionaries. This too has a misleading effect. It is useful to clarify that the phrase 'Christian missionary zeal' can be used metaphorically, and need not be confined to people who were actually raised Christians. The architects of the recent US invasion of Iraq were driven by a similar zeal, but not all of them were raised Christian.
Finally, Doniger's quotation of that anti-Semitic email from an anonymous 'correspondent' strikes me as misleading, since it reveals nothing (could it not have been written by a provocateur?). Unless of course she wants to take it as definitive proof that the people who support the Hindu right's position are all anti-Semites. This would strike me as a racist position in its own right.
Doniger uses an anecdote about anti-Semitic message to get to her point about Victorian missionaries. This too has a misleading effect. It is useful to clarify that the phrase 'Christian missionary zeal' can be used metaphorically, and need not be confined to people who were actually raised Christians. The architects of the recent US invasion of Iraq were driven by a similar zeal, but not all of them were raised Christian.
Finally, Doniger's quotation of that anti-Semitic email from an anonymous 'correspondent' strikes me as misleading, since it reveals nothing (could it not have been written by a provocateur?). Unless of course she wants to take it as definitive proof that the people who support the Hindu right's position are all anti-Semites. This would strike me as a racist position in its own right.
alandhaigh
Carmel, NY 15 hours agoIf I was Indian, I believe I would resent having an outsider, raised and living in the U. S., as a critic and crusader for major legal reform of my country. If Wendy Doniger wishes to lead a charge in reforming Indian politics and freedom of press laws, shouldn't she at least live there?
VeeJay
Bangalore 15 hours agoBanned in Bangalore ? The title itself is mendacious. Truth is, Wendy Doniger's publishers settled out of court with the complainants and offered to pulp the book!
The case never even went to trial and no the government didn't ban the book and no "the Hindutva-vadis" (oh, they must be evil of course, they take umbrage to Wendy Doniger's and take her publisher to court) are not in power, and yes, the same law has been used to ban a whole lot of things like Satanic Verses, the Last Temptation of Jesus Christ, and yes hold your breath, Dan Brown's Da Vinci Code, and a host of other books, mainly by Christian clergy petitioning the government (the catholic clergy insisted on a private screening of Da Vinci Code and made cuts in what they found offensive), mobs of muslims rioting in the streets and resulting in loss of life and property and putting hits out on the author (Satanic Verses and Salman Rushdie) , the list is endless. None of those episodes make it to the New York Times, but some random book , that a publisher voluntarily pulped in response to a petitioner going to court, results in a self serving and mendacious opEd and cries of freedom of speech in India is suddenly imperiled when a Hindu group finds offense and takes legal recourse, while Catholic clergy sitting aorund censoring movies or muslims rioting in the streets on some perceived offense doesn't !
The case never even went to trial and no the government didn't ban the book and no "the Hindutva-vadis" (oh, they must be evil of course, they take umbrage to Wendy Doniger's and take her publisher to court) are not in power, and yes, the same law has been used to ban a whole lot of things like Satanic Verses, the Last Temptation of Jesus Christ, and yes hold your breath, Dan Brown's Da Vinci Code, and a host of other books, mainly by Christian clergy petitioning the government (the catholic clergy insisted on a private screening of Da Vinci Code and made cuts in what they found offensive), mobs of muslims rioting in the streets and resulting in loss of life and property and putting hits out on the author (Satanic Verses and Salman Rushdie) , the list is endless. None of those episodes make it to the New York Times, but some random book , that a publisher voluntarily pulped in response to a petitioner going to court, results in a self serving and mendacious opEd and cries of freedom of speech in India is suddenly imperiled when a Hindu group finds offense and takes legal recourse, while Catholic clergy sitting aorund censoring movies or muslims rioting in the streets on some perceived offense doesn't !
Sarah Cords
New York, NY 12 hours agoActually, all those things made it into the Times in their day. And Doniger mentioned that Penguin voluntarily pulped the books under legal threat; to argue that that didn't effectively amount to a "ban" is a stretch, especially given the legacy of banning upon which you elucidated.
Thomas
Watertown 12 hours agoMight that be because in the US penguin books are often thought to be children books only?
shvetaketu
bengaluru 11 hours agoVR
England 15 hours agoReligious scholarship hardly has the objectivity of natural sciences but reflects current fashions in the humanities. For a corrective to her rather self-serving Op-Ed, people may wish to read how she and her disciples are perceived by some:
http://creative.sulekha.com/risa-lila-1-wendy-s-child-syndrome_103338_blog
Nikhil
Jersey 15 hours agoA Debbarman
Bangalore 16 hours agoWhile not condoning the banning of the book. I would like to express my outrage at the lax attitude to facts presented here and would also like to point out the approach to Hinduism in the books do outrage more than the Hindu fundamentalist. The facts are that the colonial era ban on homosexual intercourse was not overturned by the supreme court in India due to a technicality and India does not have a blasphemy law in the same sense as some Islamic nations. (The publication was challenged under anti defamation type of laws.)
The Banning of books in India is indeed worrisome and other books on crony capitalism in India have been de facto banned as well. The poor attention to facts here would alienate the average Indian and would not help in a conducive dialogue. The opportunity to engage with the average Indian and prevent censorship has indeed been lost here. Marina
New York 12 hours agoThe book was not banned. It was voluntarily withdrawn by the publisher to settle a lawsuit which was well into its fourth year.
Roy
Warrensburg 16 hours agoAmericans are taught to abide by law, a wonderful advice, but so are Indians where they also DO have laws. One such law is meant to guard against inflaming religious sentiments to maintain peace and harmony in the world's most religiously diverse society. Mr. Batra, the complainant against Ms. Doniger's book, lodged his complaint with the publisher on the basis of the Indian law and the publisher realized based on contents of the book that it had little to no chance of winning in court, so it withdrew the book. Is Ms. Doniger now advocating that India should change its laws? Should U.S. change its laws on freedom of expression because just last week a U.S. court ordered YouTube to take down an anti-Muslim video, apparently after global repercussions? What is going on here? That some Western scholars writing on foreign religions are generously funded by evangelical organizations to undermine religions that do not fit into their "true" religion scheme of things (read: Christianity, Judaism, Islam) is a side issue that I would not get into here for lack of space.
MN
India 16 hours agoI understand you are indignant that your book has been withdrawn by your publisher. But this kind of blind lashing out is the most unproductive thing you could have undertaken.
I am personally an atheist born in a Hindu family (yes, we exist, and no, it is not easy); and heaven knows, so to speak, the Hindu religion needs reforming (which by the way has actually been happening for the last 100 years - sati has been abolished and the caste system mostly only exists as a means of 'gerrymandering' for politicians). But superstitious beliefs still abound; and yes unhealthy gender relations is a serious problem; and yes conservative mud-headedness is an obstacle for progress of rational thinking.
There has been a continuous current of reform that has been active in Hinduism for over a 100 years now; this is, as can be expected, slow, difficult and painstaking work. It requires understanding, tact and patience.
Now, what you are doing on the other hand, especially in this column, is the equivalent of lobbing a grenade. It is unhelpful in the extreme. The only thing it will accomplish is, attract a bunch of foolish intolerant people making intemperate comments, who you will probably then parade around to your friends as straw man exhibits.
Further, there are some factual inaccuracies in your column:
1.No blasphemy law in India; the court made no decision; your publisher decided to withdraw.
2.No law was passed recently criminalizing homosexuality. Old colonial era law.
I am personally an atheist born in a Hindu family (yes, we exist, and no, it is not easy); and heaven knows, so to speak, the Hindu religion needs reforming (which by the way has actually been happening for the last 100 years - sati has been abolished and the caste system mostly only exists as a means of 'gerrymandering' for politicians). But superstitious beliefs still abound; and yes unhealthy gender relations is a serious problem; and yes conservative mud-headedness is an obstacle for progress of rational thinking.
There has been a continuous current of reform that has been active in Hinduism for over a 100 years now; this is, as can be expected, slow, difficult and painstaking work. It requires understanding, tact and patience.
Now, what you are doing on the other hand, especially in this column, is the equivalent of lobbing a grenade. It is unhelpful in the extreme. The only thing it will accomplish is, attract a bunch of foolish intolerant people making intemperate comments, who you will probably then parade around to your friends as straw man exhibits.
Further, there are some factual inaccuracies in your column:
1.No blasphemy law in India; the court made no decision; your publisher decided to withdraw.
2.No law was passed recently criminalizing homosexuality. Old colonial era law.
Vaidya
Bangalore, India 16 hours agoJust pointing out a factual error in this line: The book, the court agreed, was a violation of India’s blasphemy law, which makes it a crime to offend the sensibilities of a religious person.
The case was still sub-judice and Penguin India, the publishers, decided not to pursue it and reached an out-of-court settlement with the petitioners. As part of that, they decided to 'pulp' copies of the book and withdraw it from publication. We do not know what the court would have decided in this case. There have been many cases where books have been dragged to court and there have been bans as well as cases being thrown out.
The case was still sub-judice and Penguin India, the publishers, decided not to pursue it and reached an out-of-court settlement with the petitioners. As part of that, they decided to 'pulp' copies of the book and withdraw it from publication. We do not know what the court would have decided in this case. There have been many cases where books have been dragged to court and there have been bans as well as cases being thrown out.
RJ
Chicago 16 hours agoProfessor Doniger:
Both your book and your op-ed in the NYT obfuscate what Hinduism really teaches, and exemplify the trouble that most people have with your "alternative" and often ridiculous interpretations of Hinduism.
Sanatana Dharma, or what you call "a new, sanitized brand of Hinduism" was not "made" in the 19th century. Its philosophy has been present for millenia and continues to thrive to this day as a way of life for millions of Indians throughout the world.
The "barrage of poisonous anti-Semitism" that you received -- while indeed outrageous and unjust -- does not really change the fundamental flaws in your analysis of one of the world's greatest religions. Nor do Christian missionaries being "part of the problem" or your strange obsession with sex in Hindu mythology.
If you really are in search of what Hinduism teaches, you may want to consider rereading what most Hindus read -- the Bhagavad Gita. Consider visiting some of the Ramakrishna Maths, or read more Vivekananda.
Perhaps you could focus on another religion altogether? (Given of course, that they all lead to the same God -- another fundamental belief of Hinduism). Or, perhaps another work of fiction (similar to your current one) may be in order?
Or better yet, given your penchant for mischaracterization, perhaps you could reincarnate again as a politician?? Maybe a member of the US Congress?
But alas, by then your quackery will be long forgotten...
Both your book and your op-ed in the NYT obfuscate what Hinduism really teaches, and exemplify the trouble that most people have with your "alternative" and often ridiculous interpretations of Hinduism.
Sanatana Dharma, or what you call "a new, sanitized brand of Hinduism" was not "made" in the 19th century. Its philosophy has been present for millenia and continues to thrive to this day as a way of life for millions of Indians throughout the world.
The "barrage of poisonous anti-Semitism" that you received -- while indeed outrageous and unjust -- does not really change the fundamental flaws in your analysis of one of the world's greatest religions. Nor do Christian missionaries being "part of the problem" or your strange obsession with sex in Hindu mythology.
If you really are in search of what Hinduism teaches, you may want to consider rereading what most Hindus read -- the Bhagavad Gita. Consider visiting some of the Ramakrishna Maths, or read more Vivekananda.
Perhaps you could focus on another religion altogether? (Given of course, that they all lead to the same God -- another fundamental belief of Hinduism). Or, perhaps another work of fiction (similar to your current one) may be in order?
Or better yet, given your penchant for mischaracterization, perhaps you could reincarnate again as a politician?? Maybe a member of the US Congress?
But alas, by then your quackery will be long forgotten...
Joshua Schwartz
Ramat-Gan, Israel 16 hours agoThe Chronicle of Higher Education reports that another book by Prof. Doniger has been withdrawn by an Indian publisher to avoid controversy. As this more recent book is also available as an E-book it is unlikely that the actions of this publisher will have any effect except perhaps for book sales through different channels.
http://chronicle.com/blogs/ticker/another-indian-publisher-pulls-book-by...
http://chronicle.com/blogs/ticker/another-indian-publisher-pulls-book-by...
Arun Swamy
Los Angeles CA 16 hours agoI enjoyed the article, but one correction is in order. India has not "recently passed a law criminalizing homosexuality." The Indian Supreme Court upheld a British colonial law banning homosexuality that had been struck down as unconstitutional by a lower court. It is a pity the author gets this wrong, as it supports her thesis about the colonial influence on Hindu views about sexuality. It is also unfortunate because it lends credence to the her critics who frequently cite numerous small factual errors in her work to discredit her. As someone who is sympathetic to her main argument, I wish she would pay more attention to small factual details that are easily checked, and can only hope this one was committed by an ignorant op-ed editor.
Rad
Radvia 18 hours agoThe quoted law on homosexuality is not recent; it is from 1861 (British). The high court reversed legislation from the bench by a lower court.
The case by Batra is partly for equal protection - for e.g., Satanic Verses was banned by the government to appease the minority muslim population. The blasphemy law should be removed for all or applied to all.
Invoking Modi and Hindutva. is an irrelevant strawman. Batra et al followed due process; no one took to the streets, issued fatwas, etc.
Hinduism is very wide - it includes ultra-conservatives, catholic theists, atheists, rationalists, tribals, etc., and will include also the Doniger point of view, if it is genuine. But a bit of controversy never hurt book sales, what?
The case by Batra is partly for equal protection - for e.g., Satanic Verses was banned by the government to appease the minority muslim population. The blasphemy law should be removed for all or applied to all.
Invoking Modi and Hindutva. is an irrelevant strawman. Batra et al followed due process; no one took to the streets, issued fatwas, etc.
Hinduism is very wide - it includes ultra-conservatives, catholic theists, atheists, rationalists, tribals, etc., and will include also the Doniger point of view, if it is genuine. But a bit of controversy never hurt book sales, what?
amalendu chatterjee
north carolina 13 hours agoTwo elements must be separated - criticism of Hinduism and Indian politics. Hinduism contains many rituals as well as philosophical theories of life, science, nature, death and much more. Ritual aspect of the religion is full superstition, and other social discrimination that must be criticized for improvement. I have a famous saying 'all established religions are full of talibanism thoughts'. To get rid of such thoughts is free speech and books like this are essential.
Now politics in the current India has different dynamics. Hindus have been pushed against the wall to react by the violent nature of other religion's push in the society. Secularism is under attack though Islam has the full protection of their family law. People must sort it out through ballots but not banning books and free speech.
Now politics in the current India has different dynamics. Hindus have been pushed against the wall to react by the violent nature of other religion's push in the society. Secularism is under attack though Islam has the full protection of their family law. People must sort it out through ballots but not banning books and free speech.
bala
sunnyvale 18 hours agoI think the comment about Narendra Modi (Namo) is quite uncalled for. it is not objective. It gives the impression that the folks that are supporting Wendy are against Namo. it gives the impression that Namo had anything to do with the ban on this book. I am quite excited that Namo might become the next prime minister. At the same time I quite support freedom of speech and support Wendy. I think it would have been a stronger piece had Wendy stuck to the facts and left Namo out.
Pradeep
MA 18 hours agoA classmate's mail about a month back introduced me to the name "Doniger" and the apparent transgression of her book. The mail initiated a brouhaha that has now come full circle. Indeed I chuckled as I read it for someone in my forum had used the word “vulgar” to describe the references in Hinduism by this author. U of Chicago being a bastion of conservative politics, made me wonder at that time and I stand vindicated reading this article. I am proud of Hinduism with its sexual sculptures on temples - one of which I went to see with my mom at the age of 15, speak of embarrassment, LOL. It demonstrates the bigger vision of that religion - the celebration of life, in addition to after life, if that exists. I am essentially in argument with what Doniger is stating in the op-ed about Hinduism's BIG canvass rather that the colonial Sanskrit centric (possibly also upper class male dominated) historiography. I only disagree with the last line. As an agnostic, Hindu to boot, to me, “Sex is hotter than religion”, after all without sex, there would be no one bothered about such inconsequential diatribe of whose god is better.
RB
Bombay 18 hours agoI am Indian, upper caste Hindu, libertarian, and support free speech in ALL circumstances.
However, I must say the Ms. Doniger is either ill informed or mendacious in this Op-Ed. Select factual errors: 1) India does not have a blasphemy law. It has a law against hate speech, and writings that are solely aimed at offending the religious sentiments of people. 2) Ms. Doniger gives the impression it protects only Hinduism from blasphemy. Actually, it has been used more often by Muslims or Christians and "protects" people of all religions. 3) No Court in India has ruled that her book was a violation of this law. Her publisher voluntarily decided to settle the case, perhaps based on an economic analysis of the cost of litigation (which could have been taken to the High Courts and Supreme Court even if the lower courts ruled against them) vs. the benefit from selling the book. 4) Mr. Modi is not a member of the ultra right wing of the BJP. His campaign is based on development, and would be to the left of Republicans like Rick Santorum. Yes, his government messed up in 2002 but that was not unique to him or the BJP, and he has been held personally not culpable by the Supreme Court of India. 5) India did not pass a law criminalizing homosexuality recently. A 2 judge bench of the Supreme Court merely overturned a lower court verdict and allowed (wrongly, in my view) an 19th century law to stand. Justice Scalia would have ruled the same way. The GOI is appealing this verdict.
However, I must say the Ms. Doniger is either ill informed or mendacious in this Op-Ed. Select factual errors: 1) India does not have a blasphemy law. It has a law against hate speech, and writings that are solely aimed at offending the religious sentiments of people. 2) Ms. Doniger gives the impression it protects only Hinduism from blasphemy. Actually, it has been used more often by Muslims or Christians and "protects" people of all religions. 3) No Court in India has ruled that her book was a violation of this law. Her publisher voluntarily decided to settle the case, perhaps based on an economic analysis of the cost of litigation (which could have been taken to the High Courts and Supreme Court even if the lower courts ruled against them) vs. the benefit from selling the book. 4) Mr. Modi is not a member of the ultra right wing of the BJP. His campaign is based on development, and would be to the left of Republicans like Rick Santorum. Yes, his government messed up in 2002 but that was not unique to him or the BJP, and he has been held personally not culpable by the Supreme Court of India. 5) India did not pass a law criminalizing homosexuality recently. A 2 judge bench of the Supreme Court merely overturned a lower court verdict and allowed (wrongly, in my view) an 19th century law to stand. Justice Scalia would have ruled the same way. The GOI is appealing this verdict.
John Mead
Pennsylvania 11 hours agoYou show your hand inadvertently when you say you are an "upper-caste" Hindu. The caste system has supposedly been done away with, has it not? How do you reconcile your purported beliefs in such democratic values as free speech with belief in such an abhorrent, anti-democratic, vile thing as the Indian caste system?
Arjuna
Toronto, Canada 13 hours agoI am yet to read Ms.Doniger's book nevertheless I support her or anyone else to be able to interpret a subject in any way that is supported by factual and accurate research and scholarship. However, RB does point out a number of factual errors in Ms.Doniger's piece which spans perhaps a little over a page. This rasises the question as to the level of accuracy in her book. Maybe those who object to the book would have been better served by cataloguing the errors rather than mounting a campaign based on hurt feelings.
Critic
18 hours ago
"The Hindutva-vadis are the ones who are attacking Hinduism; I am defending it against them."
I found this to be a quite condescending. Fine, you are writing about religious aspects of South Asia that have been inadequately represented in mainstream Hindutva politics. The idea that you are "defending""Hinduism "seems to imply that your book focuses on the true "Hindusim" and the Hindutva "Hinduism" is false. I would argue that all aspects--from Upanishads to erotic sculptures--are a part of the tradition. I respect the need to have all voices heard and appreciate the effort to give voice to those who may not have a pen (women/lower castes). And obviously the laws leading to the book not being published are outrageous. But the idea you have expressed in this piece-- that you are defending us Hindus from the Hindutva is a little ridiculous. I do believe the Upanishads are a wee bit older than British colonialism - it wasn't solely invented for the purpose of satisfying British tastes.
I found this to be a quite condescending. Fine, you are writing about religious aspects of South Asia that have been inadequately represented in mainstream Hindutva politics. The idea that you are "defending""Hinduism "seems to imply that your book focuses on the true "Hindusim" and the Hindutva "Hinduism" is false. I would argue that all aspects--from Upanishads to erotic sculptures--are a part of the tradition. I respect the need to have all voices heard and appreciate the effort to give voice to those who may not have a pen (women/lower castes). And obviously the laws leading to the book not being published are outrageous. But the idea you have expressed in this piece-- that you are defending us Hindus from the Hindutva is a little ridiculous. I do believe the Upanishads are a wee bit older than British colonialism - it wasn't solely invented for the purpose of satisfying British tastes.
Arjuna
Toronto, Canada 11 hours ago
Excellent response Critc, a as liberal Hindu. totally agree with you, especially love the "Upanishads are a wee bit older than British colonialism" bit
Vexray
Spartanburg SC 19 hours agoAnother case of religion and free speech - a toxic combination.
All religion is personal as understood by its practitioners. There is no need for "scholars" to explain the religion of others as fiction or opinion. It is not art but faith.
All religion is personal as understood by its practitioners. There is no need for "scholars" to explain the religion of others as fiction or opinion. It is not art but faith.
Vexray
Spartanburg SC 11 hours ago@ Jason: You are saying separation of Church and State is not possible then or should not be. At least not for Indians, Muslims, etc.?
SC
NYC 10 hours agoJason, what you don't seem to get from this extremely succinct and to-the-point comment, is that if everyone understood the truth in what Vexray was saying, what you claim to be true would not be at all. Religion is a big social movement issue precisely because so many of it's practitioners refuse to understand the totally subjective and personal/individual nature of it. The fact that these people then behave in the manner you describe doesn't make the truth of what you say a defining truth, just an unfortunate offshoot of the situation as Vexray describes.
SPT
Delhi 19 hours agoThe problem is that everybody except Hindus are considered an authority on Hinduism. Jews, Christians, Muslims, all have declared themselves as experts on Hindu culture and religion and Hindus who say that the interpretation of these "scholars" are just a caricature of the real thing, are cursed as "Hindu fundamentalists." However, for Christianity, Islam and Judaism, only practicing scholars are allowed to write about them and considered an authority. This privilege is not assigned to Hindus for Hinduism, where non-Hindus as a matter of right try to grab the intellectual leadership.
trudds
sierra madre, CA 11 hours agoSo write a book! PS - it's easy to find people getting angry whenever a book is written disagreeing with their closely held dogma. See the noise over Dr. Reza Aslan and his book on Jesus.and then feel free to join the club.
b. lynch black
the bronx, ny 10 hours ago"However, for Christianity, Islam and Judaism, only practicing scholars are allowed to write about them and considered an authority."
this is simply not true. anyone can write a scholarly book about religion, if they go about it in a scholarly way. or if they decide to write a book about religion that is not scholarly, they are free to do that as well. i have no idea what a "practicing scholar" may be, unless you refer to those who make a living as academics. it may be true that books written by academics whose speciality is religion of whatever type have their books taken more seriously by the academic world. but religious-themed books abound without being written by academics (i.e., dan brown's works, colm mccann and colm toibin...)
this is simply not true. anyone can write a scholarly book about religion, if they go about it in a scholarly way. or if they decide to write a book about religion that is not scholarly, they are free to do that as well. i have no idea what a "practicing scholar" may be, unless you refer to those who make a living as academics. it may be true that books written by academics whose speciality is religion of whatever type have their books taken more seriously by the academic world. but religious-themed books abound without being written by academics (i.e., dan brown's works, colm mccann and colm toibin...)
Kam Banerjee
Stamford, CT 19 hours agoWendy Doniger is wrong in asserting that "India recently passed a law criminalizing homosexuality". What actually happened is that India's Supreme Court let stand a colonial era law, stating that only Parliament had the authority to rescind the law.
Sam Wilen
Durham NC 19 hours agoMazel tov on getting your book banned, Wendy! As long as we live in a silly world, may we all have such luck!
MN
India 13 hours agoIt was not banned; her publisher decided to withdraw the book. A lot of Indians are against this phenomenon of books being withdrawn or banned like this. It started decades ago with the banning of 'The Satanic Verses' by Salman Rushdie because some liberal writers and columnists recommended to the government back then that the book be banned, because they anticipated that Muslims' religious sentiments would be hurt by the book.
Sonya
Menlo Park 19 hours agoProf Doniger: Buying your book was on my To Do list for a while but reading the news that Penguin was going to be required to pulp the remaining copies in India made me order my copy pronto in the US. Also, my circle of friends and family in India who could not order the book in the US have been downloading the PDF to read it. Thank you for making it available for free online. I guess if one is incapable of writing one's own book on any topic, there is always the refuge of "one's religious sentiments being hurt." Sad and pitiful.
Is doublespeak the governing ethic in Univ. of Chicago? Martha Nussbaum a UChicago faculty defending her colleague Wendy D indulges in doublespeak. Now it is Wendy D's turn. There is nothing called blasphemy law in India and the Court which had received Batra's complaint did NOT have to decide in the case because the Publisher Penguin chose to voluntarily withdraw the book and pulp it, as out of court settlement. If in fact, Penguin did not pulp the books as voluntarily agreed in the out-of-court settlement, was the settlement made in good faith?
She should know that India has a penal code which has Section 295A which is in vogue since 1860, one of the clauses under which Batra had made the complaint.
It is shocking that she has expressed no apologies for hurting the sentiments of Hindus whose history she is trying to narrate by her alternative method driven by libido. The cover of her book is a mare pretending to be a horse showing a jutting hand of a woman between the hindlegs. In fact, it is a donkey and depicts the University of Chicago faculty. Go, Wendy, psycho-analyse yourself and write a Drain Inspector's Report -- the title given by MK Gandhi in 1927, Katherine Mayo's book onIndia.
Surely, there is a US Penal Code and Chapter 43 clearly defines harmful material which may arouse the prurient interests of minors. Wendy D's book can be established to be harmful material which calls for punishment under this Code for Public Decency. Civil responsibility of US academe?
Source: http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/06/opinion/banned-in-bangalore.html?hpw&rref=opinion