Harappan Code Hunt: WB scholar attempts to crack Indus Scripts; time to 'write' own history? Youtube video (26.04)
This is a link to a Youtube video of NewX report, discussing Indus Script with 6 scholars including Bahata Ansumali nee Mukhopadhyay, whose work is the topic of discussion. Bahata Ansumali refutes the views of Witzel, Sproat et al and affirms her disagreement with their conclusions. Maj.Gen. Bakshi refers to the decipherment work of S.Kalyanaraman in the context of trade contacts attested archaeologically and textually.
See the video and listen to the discussions.
Kalyan
https://tinyurl.com/y2yblkmc Youtube video (26.04) NewX Report
Harappan Code Hunt: WB scholar attempts to crack Indus scripts; time to 'write' own history?
40 Comments
Bahata is right. The anchor seems to have read the paper in much more detail than many. But that's all there is to it. He assembled more people than he could manage, and they came with their pompous pet propositions and conjectures, not ready to understand, hear different opinions or conclusions, keep ISC as religious language as their article of faith, and not allowing the main person being aired to speak. Such mindsets are responsible for the fact that decipherment is eluding us. Some people talked about Vijayanagar, some about Panipat war, diluting the entire thing. A very depressing spectacle.
I want to again say that : I am really thankful to the anchor for reading the paper in much more details than many, who are from the same research domain. Hats off to you, Rishabh Gulati
3) A language is different from the script used to write it down. So, here, when I put forward almost unassailable proofs regarding the nature of Indus inscriptions, saying that the inscriptions were written using "word signs", in a LOGOGRAPHIC way ( majority NOT LOGO-SYLLABIC, NEITHER USE REBUS PRINCIPLE), I never say this was NOT a language being encoded. This was LANGUAGE getting encoded for sure. Just that, this is not a religious narrative, but formulaic structured texts as found in stamps, coins, ration token or coupons.
1) I never say Indus script has not encoded language. Rather in my next paper I have tried to trace out a few ancient words used by Indus valley people, or people of Saraswati civilization. 2) I have said that, in the Indus seals and tablets, mainly 2 different ways were used to convey meaning a) The iconography (unicorns, bulls, gods and goddesses, etc.) that work as emblems to communicate the identity of the authorities that issue such seals and endorse the traded commodities using those seals. b) The inscriptions on the other hand are the "written" staff that communicates important information regarding trade control, administration, and related bureaucracy. c) Even in the inscriptions both document-specific syntaxes and language-specific syntaxes are used. For example, in a modern coin, when you see a number "2018" at the bottom of the coin, knowing the coin's syntax you understand this is the year the coin was issued. But, in the same coin when you read "satyameva jayate", or "Truth alone triumphs" , you find language, linguistic syntax and linguistic words here. Thus a stamp has different kind of syntaxes. Similarly Indus inscriptions show different kind of syntaxes.
why so emotional??? Try to improve humanity. Don't live in past glory..This is like a zoo.
Bahata is right. The anchor seems to have read the paper in much more detail than many. But that's all there is to it. He assembled more people than he could manage, and they came with their pompous pet propositions and conjectures, not ready to understand, hear different opinions or conclusions, keep ISC as religious language as their article of faith, and not allowing the main person being aired to speak. Such mindsets are responsible for the fact that decipherment is eluding us. Some people talked about Vijayanagar, some about Panipat war, diluting the entire thing. A very depressing spectacle.
Some point I (Bahata) want to make (continued....): 5) My last comment was not at all to undermine the scholars of Indian origin. Padma Shri Iravatham Mahadevan, the seminal expert on Tamil-Brahmi inscriptions and Indus inscriptions, have made a computerized digital database of Indus inscriptions back in 1977, whose corpus I have used for my study. He had once in his generosity called me "my lost grand daughter". He has passed away last year, a loss to us all, who study the script. Dr. Ronojoy Adhikari, a noted mathematician now teaching in Cambridge University, have sparked my interest to objectively analyze the script. Distinguished scholars from TIFR, such as Mayank Vahia, Nisha Yadav, etc., Padma Shri Professor Subhash Kak (Regents Professor of Computer Science Department at Oklahoma State University–Stillwater), and many such researchers from other disciplines have worked significantly to analyze the inscriptions. Rajesh P. N. Rao (the CJ and Elizabeth Hwang Endowed Professor of Computer Science and Engineering and Electrical and Computer Engineering, co-Director of the NSF Center for Neurotechnology) has also made important contribution to proving the linguistic nature of the inscriptions using mathematical modeling. Among the archaeologists, Vasant Shinde, the internationally renowned Archaeologist of Pune's Deccan College, Kuldeep Bhan, VH Sonawane and many many such distinguished researchers are continuously excavating, analyzing, and publishing to enrich us about our ancient civilization.
4) I feel deeply saddened by the sweeping generalization that "WEST SAYS NOT REAL SCRIPT". NO NO NO. There are innumerable seminal scholars like Asko Parpola (current professor emeritus of Indology and South Asian Studies at the University of Helsinki), Jonathan Mark Kenoyer (world's leading authorities on the ancient Indus civilization, a Professor of Anthropology at the University of Wisconsin Madison), late Gregory Possehl (Professor Emeritus of Anthropology at the University of Pennsylvania), Bryan Wells (an Indus script scholar having done doctorate on this from Harvard) and several hundreds of others, who have dedicated their whole life for studying this script, establishing that these were writings, encoding language. It is true that Steve Farmer, Richard Sproat, and Michael Witzel has written the paper "The Collapse of the Indus-Script Thesis: The Myth of a Literate Harappan Civilization". And it is true that I do not at all agree with their conclusions. Moreover, in this particular paper, some language used hurts my sensitivity. But, yet, they too have certain nice observations, that can actually be used to counter them. Moreover, Michael Witzel is the Wales Professor of Sanskrit at Harvard University and the editor of the Harvard Oriental Series, whose work on Harappan languages is simply indispensable for any serious scholar. Richard Sproat too is a distinguished scholar, and his skepticisms are purely academic, not political, or culturally condescending. These all are my GURUs, who never taught me directly. I am the Ekalavya, if I may say, whose finger is not yet cut. So, even when we disagree with parts of their research, we need to value their work, as without them, researching in this area would NOT AT ALL BE POSSIBLE.
I want to again say that : I am really thankful to the anchor for reading the paper in much more details than many, who are from the same research domain. Hats off to you, Rishabh Gulati
3) A language is different from the script used to write it down. So, here, when I put forward almost unassailable proofs regarding the nature of Indus inscriptions, saying that the inscriptions were written using "word signs", in a LOGOGRAPHIC way ( majority NOT LOGO-SYLLABIC, NEITHER USE REBUS PRINCIPLE), I never say this was NOT a language being encoded. This was LANGUAGE getting encoded for sure. Just that, this is not a religious narrative, but formulaic structured texts as found in stamps, coins, ration token or coupons.
1) I never say Indus script has not encoded language. Rather in my next paper I have tried to trace out a few ancient words used by Indus valley people, or people of Saraswati civilization. 2) I have said that, in the Indus seals and tablets, mainly 2 different ways were used to convey meaning a) The iconography (unicorns, bulls, gods and goddesses, etc.) that work as emblems to communicate the identity of the authorities that issue such seals and endorse the traded commodities using those seals. b) The inscriptions on the other hand are the "written" staff that communicates important information regarding trade control, administration, and related bureaucracy. c) Even in the inscriptions both document-specific syntaxes and language-specific syntaxes are used. For example, in a modern coin, when you see a number "2018" at the bottom of the coin, knowing the coin's syntax you understand this is the year the coin was issued. But, in the same coin when you read "satyameva jayate", or "Truth alone triumphs" , you find language, linguistic syntax and linguistic words here. Thus a stamp has different kind of syntaxes. Similarly Indus inscriptions show different kind of syntaxes.