“I Won’t let Sangh-supported BJP Government Come to Power Again”
By Prabhu Chawla
Published: 15th July 2014 11:51 AM
Last Updated: 15th July 2014 11:51 AM
Senior Janata Dal (United) leader Sharad Yadav, talks to the New Indian Express editorial director Prabhu Chawla on consolidating the nine factions of Janata Dal for the Bihar polls, the possibilities of returning to NDA, and stopping the Modi-led government from coming to power the second time on Sacchi Baat on News X.
PC: You have been in the Lok Sabha for eight years. This year, you are in the Rajya Sabha. How are you coping in Parliament?
SY: I am habitual of being in the Lok Sabha. It is part of my values.
PC: Are you feeling suffocated now?
SY: It is home. I have no other place to camp. However there is a difference in my disposition in the two Houses. There is a difference in how I deal with things in the two Houses. There is a difference in the how I talk in the two houses.
PC: Are you feeling claustrophobic?
SY: It is crammed. “Suffocation” is a big word. But it’s true that I am not comfortable. I am trying to settle down. In Late Rajiv Gandhi’s times, Atal Bihari Vajpayee and I came to this House. We both had lost the elections. We developed the space.
PC: Were you prepared to lose this time?
SY: No.
PC: The government was accused of corruption. Had you done good work there?
SY: No. I had taken good steps.
PC: You did. The government didn’t.
SY: That’s not true. The government worked hard.
PC: Why did you lose?
SY: We lost because the good measures taken by the government need time to season. Caste system has become sort of an institution. It becomes the most active during the polls. Our opponents won votes on the basis of caste.
PC: Did people vote on caste? Did people not vote on the name of Narendra Modi?
SY: It’s an amalgamation of all factors. How did we get 3, 70, 000 votes?
PC: Sharad Yadav may have got those votes. How are you sure that the votes went to JD (U)?
SY: We are not different entities.
PC: Why didn’t those votes go to the other JD (U) leaders as well?
SY: The good steps taken by us went in our favour. Nitishji was sincere. The campaigning and the situation were different this time. For the first time, the Minorities Board was in fear.
PC: Did you get the votes because people saw in you in a different light owing to your supportive attitude towards the NDA?
SY: No. The vote entirely went to the Rashtriya Janata Dal (RJD).
PC: It was anti-Nitish Kumar vote.
SY: No.
PC: I am talking about JD(U). Was it anger against Nitish Kumar?
SY: In the 60 plus odd years, no one has worked towards development like Nitish Kumar has. But this time, the vote was not for development.
PC: Was it for Modi?
SY: You can say anything. The vote got polarised.
PC: Did it get polarised because of Modi?
SY: No. No individual has the capacity.
PC: Were you punished for breaking the alliance that had got you the votes, and deceiving the people?
SY: No. It wasn’t a big issue.
PC: You lost a big election. They got 31 seats. Ram Vilas Paswan got a huge advantage out of it.
SY: We didn’t get the advantage of the votes BJP lost owing to the RJD-JD(U) division.
PC: You lost on the caste math.
SY: Our decisions and strategies went against us.
PC: Nitish’s fault was that he decided to fight without Modi.
SY: That wasn’t Nitish Kumar’s decision. It was a party decision.
PC: You had opposed the move since the beginning.
SY: Once a decision is taken…
PC:.. then you walk the party line.. which was to not fight with Modi.
SY: My opposing it shouldn’t have made a difference. I was inclined towards the party’s decision. Our alliance with the BJP has been made and broken many times.
PC: Did you have the times of Madhu Limaye in mind?
SY: No. Devi Lal had brought down the government.
PC: Devi lal had brought down the VP Singh government. Madhu Limaye had brought it down.
SY: Madhu Limaye was, “Phisal Parey to Harr Ganga.”
PC: Karpuri Thakur and Devi Lal had done that.
SY: They raised the issue of dual membership.
PC: That came later.
SY: Madhu Limaye had raised it.
PC: Why does Ram Vilas Paswan repeatedly raise the issue of your return to NDA? Will you return to the NDA?
SY: I had given a statement on that. He is not my spokesman. He shouldn’t give a statement like that. I am the party president.
PC: He said it for Nitish as well.
SY: No. There are human relations in a party. I am not alone in the party. There are many people in the organisation.
PC: Would you have left if you were alone?
SY: It’s a different question.
PC: Your heart is elsewhere.
SY: No. I was never alone. And I don’t take decisions without the opinion of others. Some decisions are not acceptable to me. I still go by them. There is no difference between the heart and the party.
PC: Will you return to NDA?
SY: Not at all. How is it possible?
PC: What’s the reason? Is Narendra Modi the reason?
SY: When NDA’s national agenda came into shape, there was an understanding with Shri Advani and Shri Vajpayee—the issues of BJP and the issue of the alliance were kept separately.
PC: Modiji broke it...
SY: No. The entire party did.
PC: But Modiji hasn’t spoken on the issues he had raised. He hasn’t said anything on Article 370, The Ayodhya issue, the Uniform Civil Code after becoming the Prime Minister.
SY: It has been a period of 45 days. We know which direction the government is taking. Five MPs rush to Moradabad on a small issue of a microphone. If so many people rush to work on a single issue like this, there will be no peace in the country.
PC: Do you mean that Modi’s agenda is that of Hindutva?
SY: There is a strong pillar behind this entire brigade. They feel that things can be done if the Hindus unite.
PC: Do you mean to say that he is a good man with the wrong values?
SY: No. If at all the uniting of the Hindus is happening, it must red card the caste system. You want to unite the Hindus. How will the Dalits call themselves Hindu?
PC: But the Dalits go to all the temples.
SY: That’s a different argument.
PC: You are saying that Modi’s agenda is alright but his party’s isn’t.
SY: No. Wrong. They have the one agenda.
PC: You want to say that Modi has the Hindutva agenda.
SY: No. He will stay quiet while all this happens. He will stay quiet. It has just been 45 days.
PC: Will you join him if he does good work and takes good steps?
SY: We will see.
PC: There is no permanent animosity between you and them...
SY: We have worked together many times. We have parted ways many times. But my calculations contradict yours.
PC: Will you join them?
SY: Time will tell. No question of returning.
PC: But you said that time will tell.
SY: There were factors that caused the divide. Our decisions and actions in this regard were taken keeping in mind the political situation in the country.
PC: Your party suffered politically every time you parted ways with the BJP. You are only present in Bihar. What is the fate of the party?
SY: You said that being with them favoured us. When Chaudhary Devi Lalji and I were together, we swept the elections. BJP was not in power.
PC: But you allied in 1989.
SY: We performed better. Saying that being with them was good for us, is wrong.
PC: But you progressed in Bihar, Jharkhand and UP because of them.
SY: I would try to consolidate the nine parts of the scattered Janata Dal. I won’t take names.
PC: I think Lalu Yadav is the most important leader among them all.
SY: The consolidation will begin in Bihar. It will progress from there.
PC: Will you all contest polls together?
SY: Definitely. I am trying to do that.
PC: Lalu Yadav and Nitish Kumar… Will the Congress join?
SY: That’s a different matter altogether. RJD and JDU were together in the Rajya Sabha elections.
PC: You won with their support.
SY: I am saying that.
PC: Sharad Yadav had to take Lalu Yadav’s support.
SY: I am not saying that.
PC: They didn’t prop a candidate against you.
SY: All parties. It was done unanimously. It is for the future.
PC: BJP also did not prop a candidate against you. It was for the future. You are the unanimous leader in Bihar. Under whose leadership will you fight the Bihar elections? Lalu’s? Rabri’s?
SY: I have to conclude what I have initiated.
PC: You will unite the Samajwadis and the Janta Dals.
SY: It has to turn into a powerful political consolidation.
PC: Will going with RJD be opportunism?
SY: You are talking about opportunism. RJD and JD (U) are two compartments. People keep shifting. Our government fell because of the Mandal (Commission). Advaniji went on the Rath Yatra. Mandal and Kamandal were the issues. It can’t happen again.
PC: But Hindutva is still the issue. You used the term “Kamandal”.
SY: People gave it the name. People have been fighting against the social disparity in India.
PC: What about the weaker sections? Will you go with Mayawati?
SY: Keep watching.
PC: And Mulayam?
SY: Keep watching.
PC: How can Mulayam and Mayawati come on the same platform?
SY: We initiated “Bharat Bandd” three times. Who would agree? How would the entire country agree on a strike?
PC: Will Mayawati and Mulayam come to the same platform?
SY: Taking names would spoil it. We walk with the parties and the society. To make the country stronger, you cannot keep the 80 per cent people behind you.
PC: Modi says that 80 per cent people are Hindus. Whether they are backward or whether they are people from the weaker sections.
SY: In that case, people of the Sangh should have worked to red card the caste system.
PC: They say that they are working towards it.
SY: Tell me the name of the one person from the backward or weaker section who has headed the Sangh.
PC: But Bengaru Laxman was the BJP president.
SY: Sangh dominates the BJP.
PC: Is BJP Sangh’s extention?
SY: Yes
PC: You won’t flourish unless you join a national alliance. You all were born out of the anti-Congress movement. Will you join the Congress?
SY: There have been ebbs and falls. There were times when we fell. There were times when the BJP dipped. It’s part of politics. You can’t predict the direction. In politics, if you decide to go to Agra, you may reach Bareli.
PC: There is one thing common between Bareli and Agra (laughs).
SY: No. My context is different. It’s about the different directions politics takes you in.
PC: What about allying with BJP?
SY: No question.
PC: What about going with Congress?
SY: When something of that sort happens, I will show you a futuristic plan. The party is not important. I have been in the NDA. I have been in the United Front. VP Singh became the Prime Minister. People like me are bound to see ups and downs. I will dilute the situation, for sure.
PC: Will you try to make a non-Congress, non-BJP front?
SY: The political situation has to be diluted without hurting the Constitution.
PC: Modi saab is preparing for the 2019 polls.
SY: He can dream. We are dreaming as well. We will compete hard.
PC: So you will not let them come to power for the second time.
SY: Their path isn’t perfect.
PC: You will not let Modi Government’s ideology come to power again.
SY: This is BJP’s government. And there is the Sangh...
PC: Will you not let the Sangh-supported BJP government come to power again?
SY: No way.
PC: Thanks for coming to our studio.
SY: Thanks.